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Post by saniles on Aug 6, 2018 0:31:23 GMT
Ogre Kingdoms thoughts- I’ve never played as of against ogres before. So forgive me if my thoughts are like a “duh” kind of thing.
I have one model that will be a Stonehorn and I intend to get another to serve as the Thundertusk.
My thoughts that the Thundertusk will be better as a flank to the Ironguts since they are Always Strikes Last, therefore they would get the best bang for the buck when I charge the Thundertusk into a combat with them, making my opponent ASL to go even with the ironguts before they start taking wounds from say.... Blorcs, SOs, or WOC.
The Stonehorn seems more general in nature and so I could probably put him wherever, but probably with my Bulls if the Thundertusk is with my ironguts.
What do you all think?
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Post by mottdon on Aug 6, 2018 16:17:46 GMT
I might actually switch those two up. The problem is that even with giving your opponent ASL, Ironguts still have a VERY low Initiative, so unless you are facing off against something like Zombies, you'll probably be hit first anyway because the ASL will cancel each other out, relying on Initiative order. But with your Bulls, they are not hampered with ASL from carrying Great Weapons, so they would strike first.
I'd just keep that Stonehorn back slightly from the front of your Ironguts so that if you get charged, your Ironguts get hit and not your Stonehorn. Charge him in on your next turn to get those critical charge hits from him.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Aug 6, 2018 16:31:22 GMT
Not quite.
BRB p. 69 (ASL): If the model with this rule is fighting an enemy with the same ability, the Attacks are made simultaneously. If a model has both this rule and Always Strikes First, the two cancel out and neither applies so use the model's Initiative.
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Post by mottdon on Aug 6, 2018 16:35:16 GMT
How is that not the same as what I just said?
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Post by saniles on Aug 6, 2018 16:37:07 GMT
It is the same lol
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Aug 6, 2018 16:46:22 GMT
No, it is not. In the case of ASL vs ASL, the Attacks are made simultaneously, regardless of initiative. If a model has both the ASL and ASF special rules, then these will cancel out and the model makes its Attacks according to its Initiative.
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Post by saniles on Aug 6, 2018 16:49:21 GMT
Ok I see what you are saying. ASF has its own special exception where ASL is just simultaneous strikes for all?
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Post by sedge on Aug 6, 2018 16:52:46 GMT
If both units have ASF, then they hit at the same time. If both have ASL they hit at the same time. If a single unit has both ASF and ASL, then the two cancel out and it hits at initiative.
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Post by mottdon on Aug 6, 2018 16:56:02 GMT
Oh, I see. You're saying that Initiative doesn't come into this situation at all?
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Aug 6, 2018 16:56:08 GMT
@ saniles: What sedge says. ASF and ASL are the same in this respect.
@ mottdon: Yes.
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Post by mottdon on Aug 6, 2018 17:00:08 GMT
Well, back on topic, my point should remain the same. Only this time, you'd stand a chance to swing at your opponent with ALL of your attacks from Ironguts, next to the Thundertusk, before you take any wounds and potentially lose Ogres. But with the Bulls and Thundertusk, you'd still get to attack first.
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Post by saniles on Aug 6, 2018 17:45:05 GMT
Yea with the Thundertusk/Ironguts combo, I’m looking for simultaneous to even the scale I think. I mean... I think it rates a couple tries at least
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Post by mottdon on Aug 6, 2018 17:55:47 GMT
Oh, yeah. You gotta try it all out a few times before you find what works best for you!
I like the conversation!
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Aug 7, 2018 7:53:40 GMT
It is perhaps useful to point out that with this tactic, enemy units with ASF will not re-roll misses, but will strike in Initiative order. This, incidentally, also applies to ASF + ASL units (like the White Lions).
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Post by saniles on Aug 10, 2018 2:56:03 GMT
Got that Thundertusk. $40 NIB. Good old eBay.
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