Post by bonbonvert on Oct 18, 2018 9:43:33 GMT
Good morning everyone!
That's make few years now i am trying to play a competitive full goblin, with mixed success. I wanted to talk a little bit about it, and about my experience, and also to gather your experiences about it too. So i'll make a little resume of what i've found useful.
Per definition, a full goblins army, simply means no orcs. Troll, giants, squigs are all welcome.
You have to keep in mind you have animosity, your units will tend to charge even if you don't want it, and won't move even if you want it. Think defensively and counter-charge, and the most of the animosity will be under control.
So a few units analysis :
Goblin warboss general:
You will take a common goblin as general, cause Ld8 is already really bad, but Ld7 is much worst. This is one of the most important character of your army, without him, everything is lost. The best way to use him i found is in a little 20 night goblin bunker, behind your night goblin horde or pack of trolls. It brings the advantage to not be easely tagetable, nor in close combat than in the shooting phase, plus you will use your night goblin horde or troll as a fanatic booster. Usually a little ward save and a magic resistance will be more than welcome to avoid the death sniping.
(Night) Goblin BSB :
Your second most important character. Can be used with a ward save or the discipline standard (still not sure what is the best, a BSB who survivre the battle if i don't lose, or a better leadership to avoid my line to flee) It will go in pair with the General. I know the effect all eggs in the same basket, but if you cannot reach my basket, it should be fine.
Shamans :
Your main source of Magic, and most important, defense against the nasty spell of the opponent (these spells which kill 40-50 goblins at once). So my experience showed me a lvl4 goblin shaman was really needed, with a +1 dispel can be good. A small lvl1 night goblin shaman is also great, with the eternal dispel scroll. Why night goblin? because of mushrooms. You WILL cast your spell good with +1d6, and as he will know only 1 spell, he will survive at least 2 turns (which can make a good usage of your dispel scroll). So use it with a great annoying spell, like gift of spider or itchy nuisance.
A lvl4 shaman is also really expensive, but i guess this is the best bet to have a good magic defense.
(Night) Goblin Bosses :
I like them a lot as chaff, annoyance and sometime helping to try to control trolls. The boss on gigantic spider is awesome, and the only way to have a 2+ save and have 3HP for a hero. Use it as a fighty unit to support the line, chase chaff and even war machine hunter. Lone boss on wolf, used as wolf rider without animosity. Both can rally a lost troll unit to try to calm their stupidity. That's basically the use i have of them. Night goblin bosses are so cheap, that you can use them to form an elite unit, and it's actually really not so bad, like 5-6 of them, in a small night goblin unit and proctect flanc of your army with.
Goblin Core :
Best bet here is the night goblin horde of 70-100 with netter, and sometimes fanatics. They will hold the line if the general and bsb are not too far against everything, they will be avoided like plague. I have actually noticed, against a lot of opponent, they will lose without support, BUT they will kill actually a lot of ennemy troops against them, and actually point for point goblins are better killer and glue than any other horde anybody can field. So don't fill your horde with a lot of killy character, or it will be ignored, keep it as cheap a possible with netter and a banner at minimum.
Night goblins or goblins can be also used as chaff. Take 20 of them, just send them forward and see what happen. Usually i was really surprised how they tend to kill easely enemy chaff, redirect, and how people are so scared they have fanatics. They WILL throw their chaff at them to remove the fanatics, and you can after simply charge them (and you will cause of animosity) or shoot them to death.
Goblin wolf rider are in my opinion the best light cavalry in the game (except they are not reliable, but who cares about some wolfs and gobelins?) Best redirector. Use it 5, as cheap as possible, except maybe the shield, 4+ save can make the difference between fleeing and staying. I tried to use them as "heavy cavalry" with 3-4 big bosses inside, good idea, doesn't work.
So as a small conclusion for core is take one, and only one big horde of night goblin, at least 1x20 goblins as a general bunker (i prefer goblins for nasty skullker in case of pegasus captain or the like, but up to you, fanatics are also really cool) and then do as you wish. Wolfs are great, as msu-like goblins.
Special units :
Basically, they are few units which are really useful here.
Trolls are the most useful special unit. They are your hammer, take a lot of them. I like the 2x6 configuration, left and right of my horde (they are in the general-BSB bubble) so you can control them, can stand a round or two close combat waiting for support. Think of them as a one use unit, my experience showed me that they charge, detroy one unit and then are behind the ennemy line and well... stay there as they are really stupide.
Squig herds have the same use as trolls, except they are a little bit more reliable, but much weaker, they wont survive a charge of an elite unit. Horde of them are too unreliable and much too dangerous to be used. I like to play them also as a kind of chariot, in 3 wide unit with only 4 goblins to not have animosity.
Wolf chariot have the same use as wolf rider, without animosity, and great as supporting unit. Take a lot of them.
Balista are just great, take them. Synergize really well with the defensive counter-attack strategy you have to play with goblins.
Squig hopper... just don't know how to use them
Rare Units :
You'll find all you need here, except the points to take them all.
Giant : I had great success to take a pair of them in one flank. They just create such a panic in the ennemy, and just seeing that is hilarious and the rest of your army is basically free to do whatever they want to do. As they are reliable, also really fragile, they don't need a general, and work perfectely in flanks.
Araknarok has the same use a giant, except aim for the flank charge and infantry. I had great success as a line monster too, with support of the general as it is a stubborn unit. In the center it will generally be facing infantry, which is exactely what you want. Use it as cheap as possible.
Mangler, just great, take them. Use them in counter-attack idea too, even behind your line and don't hesitate to charge through your goblins or trolls with. You'll lose basically the same number of goblins as the ennemy will do in his troops, you can only win in this exchange, except against skaven slaves. They are also great cannon magnet to let your giant, or big spider live.
Pump wagon, i think they are in the same category as hoppers, but i don't know how to use them.
Rock lobber is a catapult, you need it. As balista, synergize well with the defense, counter-offensive army strategy. Great at killing monster, ok at killing horde. Don't forget this is also our best war machine killer, usually a hit destroy even a well defended dwarf cannon.
Doom diver. Just awesome, i think this is the greatest war machine in the game. It's really difficult to NOT hit (at least something). It can kill any elite unite, is OK against monster, and the bane of solo character. Take 2, always, no excuse. Synergize again really well with the rest of the army, kill what is dangerous against our general and bsb, can just stay behind our line, no need of sight. What more do you need?
Other flavour trolls are great, but in competition with the rest, so you'll basically never take them.
Actually i wrote much more than intended...
As a conclusion :
The main way to use your goblin in a competitive manner is to be defensive and use counter-attack. Having your line holding (more or less) to protect your general and BSB. YOU HAVE TO PROTECT THEM!!!!! Without them, well, you're nothing. Don't expect to win every time, you WILL lose because the central unit decided to charge alone without support the deathstar of the ennemy, you WILL kill your own monster with your own warmachines, you WILL fail the stupidity test on a flanc charge of troll to win the battle. Just take everything easy and have fun, because that's what goblin are for.
Edit some writing mistakes
That's make few years now i am trying to play a competitive full goblin, with mixed success. I wanted to talk a little bit about it, and about my experience, and also to gather your experiences about it too. So i'll make a little resume of what i've found useful.
Per definition, a full goblins army, simply means no orcs. Troll, giants, squigs are all welcome.
You have to keep in mind you have animosity, your units will tend to charge even if you don't want it, and won't move even if you want it. Think defensively and counter-charge, and the most of the animosity will be under control.
So a few units analysis :
Goblin warboss general:
You will take a common goblin as general, cause Ld8 is already really bad, but Ld7 is much worst. This is one of the most important character of your army, without him, everything is lost. The best way to use him i found is in a little 20 night goblin bunker, behind your night goblin horde or pack of trolls. It brings the advantage to not be easely tagetable, nor in close combat than in the shooting phase, plus you will use your night goblin horde or troll as a fanatic booster. Usually a little ward save and a magic resistance will be more than welcome to avoid the death sniping.
(Night) Goblin BSB :
Your second most important character. Can be used with a ward save or the discipline standard (still not sure what is the best, a BSB who survivre the battle if i don't lose, or a better leadership to avoid my line to flee) It will go in pair with the General. I know the effect all eggs in the same basket, but if you cannot reach my basket, it should be fine.
Shamans :
Your main source of Magic, and most important, defense against the nasty spell of the opponent (these spells which kill 40-50 goblins at once). So my experience showed me a lvl4 goblin shaman was really needed, with a +1 dispel can be good. A small lvl1 night goblin shaman is also great, with the eternal dispel scroll. Why night goblin? because of mushrooms. You WILL cast your spell good with +1d6, and as he will know only 1 spell, he will survive at least 2 turns (which can make a good usage of your dispel scroll). So use it with a great annoying spell, like gift of spider or itchy nuisance.
A lvl4 shaman is also really expensive, but i guess this is the best bet to have a good magic defense.
(Night) Goblin Bosses :
I like them a lot as chaff, annoyance and sometime helping to try to control trolls. The boss on gigantic spider is awesome, and the only way to have a 2+ save and have 3HP for a hero. Use it as a fighty unit to support the line, chase chaff and even war machine hunter. Lone boss on wolf, used as wolf rider without animosity. Both can rally a lost troll unit to try to calm their stupidity. That's basically the use i have of them. Night goblin bosses are so cheap, that you can use them to form an elite unit, and it's actually really not so bad, like 5-6 of them, in a small night goblin unit and proctect flanc of your army with.
Goblin Core :
Best bet here is the night goblin horde of 70-100 with netter, and sometimes fanatics. They will hold the line if the general and bsb are not too far against everything, they will be avoided like plague. I have actually noticed, against a lot of opponent, they will lose without support, BUT they will kill actually a lot of ennemy troops against them, and actually point for point goblins are better killer and glue than any other horde anybody can field. So don't fill your horde with a lot of killy character, or it will be ignored, keep it as cheap a possible with netter and a banner at minimum.
Night goblins or goblins can be also used as chaff. Take 20 of them, just send them forward and see what happen. Usually i was really surprised how they tend to kill easely enemy chaff, redirect, and how people are so scared they have fanatics. They WILL throw their chaff at them to remove the fanatics, and you can after simply charge them (and you will cause of animosity) or shoot them to death.
Goblin wolf rider are in my opinion the best light cavalry in the game (except they are not reliable, but who cares about some wolfs and gobelins?) Best redirector. Use it 5, as cheap as possible, except maybe the shield, 4+ save can make the difference between fleeing and staying. I tried to use them as "heavy cavalry" with 3-4 big bosses inside, good idea, doesn't work.
So as a small conclusion for core is take one, and only one big horde of night goblin, at least 1x20 goblins as a general bunker (i prefer goblins for nasty skullker in case of pegasus captain or the like, but up to you, fanatics are also really cool) and then do as you wish. Wolfs are great, as msu-like goblins.
Special units :
Basically, they are few units which are really useful here.
Trolls are the most useful special unit. They are your hammer, take a lot of them. I like the 2x6 configuration, left and right of my horde (they are in the general-BSB bubble) so you can control them, can stand a round or two close combat waiting for support. Think of them as a one use unit, my experience showed me that they charge, detroy one unit and then are behind the ennemy line and well... stay there as they are really stupide.
Squig herds have the same use as trolls, except they are a little bit more reliable, but much weaker, they wont survive a charge of an elite unit. Horde of them are too unreliable and much too dangerous to be used. I like to play them also as a kind of chariot, in 3 wide unit with only 4 goblins to not have animosity.
Wolf chariot have the same use as wolf rider, without animosity, and great as supporting unit. Take a lot of them.
Balista are just great, take them. Synergize really well with the defensive counter-attack strategy you have to play with goblins.
Squig hopper... just don't know how to use them
Rare Units :
You'll find all you need here, except the points to take them all.
Giant : I had great success to take a pair of them in one flank. They just create such a panic in the ennemy, and just seeing that is hilarious and the rest of your army is basically free to do whatever they want to do. As they are reliable, also really fragile, they don't need a general, and work perfectely in flanks.
Araknarok has the same use a giant, except aim for the flank charge and infantry. I had great success as a line monster too, with support of the general as it is a stubborn unit. In the center it will generally be facing infantry, which is exactely what you want. Use it as cheap as possible.
Mangler, just great, take them. Use them in counter-attack idea too, even behind your line and don't hesitate to charge through your goblins or trolls with. You'll lose basically the same number of goblins as the ennemy will do in his troops, you can only win in this exchange, except against skaven slaves. They are also great cannon magnet to let your giant, or big spider live.
Pump wagon, i think they are in the same category as hoppers, but i don't know how to use them.
Rock lobber is a catapult, you need it. As balista, synergize well with the defense, counter-offensive army strategy. Great at killing monster, ok at killing horde. Don't forget this is also our best war machine killer, usually a hit destroy even a well defended dwarf cannon.
Doom diver. Just awesome, i think this is the greatest war machine in the game. It's really difficult to NOT hit (at least something). It can kill any elite unite, is OK against monster, and the bane of solo character. Take 2, always, no excuse. Synergize again really well with the rest of the army, kill what is dangerous against our general and bsb, can just stay behind our line, no need of sight. What more do you need?
Other flavour trolls are great, but in competition with the rest, so you'll basically never take them.
Actually i wrote much more than intended...
As a conclusion :
The main way to use your goblin in a competitive manner is to be defensive and use counter-attack. Having your line holding (more or less) to protect your general and BSB. YOU HAVE TO PROTECT THEM!!!!! Without them, well, you're nothing. Don't expect to win every time, you WILL lose because the central unit decided to charge alone without support the deathstar of the ennemy, you WILL kill your own monster with your own warmachines, you WILL fail the stupidity test on a flanc charge of troll to win the battle. Just take everything easy and have fun, because that's what goblin are for.
Edit some writing mistakes