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Post by Sweet_Totally on Apr 7, 2019 13:53:14 GMT
Something I'd recommend to atleast try out, especially if you like knights, is to field you lvl 4 Nurgle Sorcerer in a small unit of knights and have him run up a flank. That way you can utilise the signature spell to great effect. If you happen to get caught in melee then the Nurgle Knights will likely manage to keep their ground since they are surprisingly sturdy and have quite the damage output. Another unit I aboslutely adore is the Nurgle Giant. If it manages to get across the table and into melee without dying then it's more than likely to mess stuff up with its chart of wacky attacks and thunderstomp.
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Post by relentlesss on Apr 7, 2019 21:42:59 GMT
hmmmm... that does sound good...
Would a small unit be survivable enough to stick a general in?
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Post by Sweet_Totally on Apr 8, 2019 8:39:22 GMT
I won't lie to you, it will be a bit risky but Nurgle Knights are tough enough to hold their ground against or even defeat most things that aren't a block of can-opening infantry. Just don't forget to take a champion so your sorcerer doesn't have to go into challenges. That being said, you should strive to keep the unit out of combat since you can't use the signature while in CC. If you want extra heft to the flank aswell as something that draws focus away from your general then have a chimera tag along nearby. Whenever I run this type of general I let him carry the Dispel Scroll since I use his mutations-allowance on Flaming Breath. A less risky alternative would be to use a lvl 2 nurgle sorcerer in the unit instead of your general. In that case I'd suggest you take the Lore of Shadow on your footslogging general since it combos well with the Lore of Nurgle.
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Post by crownprinceimrik on Apr 8, 2019 10:19:55 GMT
I'll add my suggestions and thoughts too, hope they help!
Having three units of dogs gives you good board control and chaff which will be needed since your army is on the whole quite slow. I'd have two of them cover one flank and the other one advance with the Skullcrushers and Knights on your other flank to prevent Frenzy from causing you issues and also to drive off enemy chaff/provide cover from shooting/chaff up the enemy counter-measures.
Not sure if you were planning this already, but I'd run the Chaos Warriors 6 wide. It gives you the most attacks. I'm not personally a fan of running them any more than 3 deep unless you're running Tzeentch Warriors specifically to be an unshakeable anvil. Warriors are so massively expensive in points that having more than one rank of them sitting the back not doing anything more than working against Steadfast is too much of a points sink. The extra rank won't matter against any true tar pit and against elites you're hopefully going to kill enough to break steadfast anyways as Chaos Warriors hit hard.
Gorebeast Chariots are incredibly good and crazy hard to kill, but watch out for static CR as that can beat them. Also, against S3 targets they aren't much tougher than a normal Nurgle Chariot to kill since the enemy is wounding on 6's and you've got your 3+ armor, so that should be considered when you see who you're attacking with them, as a Nurgle Chariot might be able to do the same job for cheaper and for Core tax too. Just something to consider.
edit - didn't see you dropped the Juggernaut on the BSB
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Post by relentlesss on Apr 11, 2019 19:20:03 GMT
Thanks again for all the great input, it's got me thinking this week though about a possible different route...
I've always built armies around a theme as I find that more enjoyable, yet I'm not really up on my fantasy lore. One thing that bugged me a bit was having a mix of Gods and although I know it would of happened, I think for my first build I'll instead go for a mono theme or Nurgle
I think a full Nurgle army gives a lot of modelling potential and would look pretty mint, so my tweaks as follows:
HEROES
Chaos Sorcerer Lord
- Lvl 4 - Daemonic mount with barding - Familiar - Enchanted shield - Talisman of preservation - Dispel scroll - MoN (Have 25 pts left for a weapon)
Exalted Hero
- BsB - MoN - Sword of striking - Charmed shield - Dawnstone
CORE
Warriors x 18 - MoN - M and SB - Shields - Banner of eternal flame
Warriors x 23 - MoN - FC - Banner of swiftness - Halberds
Warhounds x 5
Warhounds x 5
Warhounds x 5
SPECIAL
Gorebeast chariot - MoN
Gorebeast chariot - MoN
Knights x 9 - FC - Standard of discipline - Ensorcelled weapons
Dragon Ogres x 3 - Champ - Great Weapons
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Is there anything that doesn't work there? I figure the Dragons will give me a bit more pace to support the knights or cover the other flank, while the chariots either take the other flank or support the warrior blocks in the centre. I'm sure 2 blocks of knights would be better... but don't think it would look as good! Plus 9 gives the general some more protection I suppose!
The khorne and dwarf bits I'll add after all of this is done to give me more playing options and maybe go mono khorne!
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Post by strutsagget on Apr 11, 2019 19:26:50 GMT
I like it. Mono god is the way to go
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Post by crownprinceimrik on Apr 11, 2019 20:38:21 GMT
I like the list pretty well too, and I definitely agree mono-god is the best. If you're still looking for a magic weapon, you can't go wrong with a simple Sword of Might. For tactics I'd suggest being a bit careful with the Dragon Ogres. They hit hard, but they die fast. Fortunately you've got two Gorebeast Chariots that should distract enemy shooting for a bit, but just be a bit wary with the Ogres. Unsupported charges aren't the best for that unit. I'd also definitely suggest you keep the Chariots in the center like you mentioned. M6 is very slow when you cannot march, that's the same speed as a Dwarf combat unit. You charge quickly, but advance up the field slowly, so a flank isn't their best position. The only possible weakness I see in your list is a lack of anti-armor outside of the Dragon Ogres, so you could run into issues against an Empire cavalry list, but I think the list has very good potential despite that. Keep us updated on your progress!
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Post by Sweet_Totally on Apr 11, 2019 21:15:43 GMT
I'd also definitely suggest you keep the Chariots in the center like you mentioned. M6 is very slow when you cannot march, that's the same speed as a Dwarf combat unit. You charge quickly, but advance up the field slowly, so a flank isn't their best position. The only possible weakness I see in your list is a lack of anti-armor outside of the Dragon Ogres, so you could run into issues against an Empire cavalry list, but I think the list has very good potential despite that. Keep us updated on your progress! I agree about the Gorebeast Chariots. I've tried a couple of times to have two of them guarding a flank but the end result have been kinda shoddy, although to be fair that was atleast partially due to my own incompetence. As a central battering ram however they work great, especially if you pull off a double charge with them. Regarding the relative lack of anti-armour in the list that is easily solved by the Nurgle Signature spell which excels at tearing through knights. An alternative to relying on the Sorcerer Lord is a unit of Trolls. They're cheap, gobble up most heavily armoured stuff and fairly durable as long as you keep them away from fire. just make sure that you keep your General's aura within range of them and ideally also the BSB's. I've never tried out Dragon Ogres so don't have any practical input there but they should work well as flankers and monster hunters. Your Sorcerer Lord build is however illegal since you can't have both a Dispel Scroll and the Familiar. I recommend keeping the scroll and switching out the Familiar for flame Breath. You might want to consider a smaller unit of Knights since they eat up a lot of points. Alternatively, you could try deploying them as two units of 5 knights. That way you don't lose out on their dmg output and get one additional, relatively fast unit with a good punch that is surprisingly sturdy for its few numbers. Edit: I didn't realise that you had put your Sorcerer Lord on a Daemonic Mount. I'd recommend that you switch the shields around on your characters. That way your BSB get a nice 2+ rerollable armour save and the effect of the charmed shield is put to much better use protecting the Sorcerer Lord who is undoubtedly going to be targeted a fair amount since his choice of mounts means he won't be protected by the knights. Alternatively, I'd give the Sorcerer Lord the charmed shield and give the BSB Scaly Skin and a normal shield for a great 1+ rerollable armour save. Due to the base size of the Daemonic Mount I further recommend, if you want a large block of Knights, that you either subtract one knight, leaving the number of knights 8 (and thus form the unit 2x5) or add a knight, giving the number of knight 10 (and form the unit 2x6).
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Post by relentlesss on Apr 12, 2019 4:37:45 GMT
Great thank you!
All easy changes. Would the lord be better on a normal stead instead then?
The omly reason for the big block was rule of cool
Is it worth switch D.ogres for normal ones, or are the D.ogres worth it for the speed? (that was my thought)
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Post by sedge on Apr 12, 2019 5:41:15 GMT
Regular Ogres aren't great in a WoC list as Chaos Warriors fulfil a similar role, and do it better. Dragon Ogres have a different role, as with great weapons you're looking at Strength 7, and their mobility makes it easier to get them into the right fights. They're great for taking down big scary monsters or heavy cavalry units. They add something a bit different to your list, so I'd suggest keeping them in. Plus they look cool!
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Post by relentlesss on Apr 12, 2019 7:33:37 GMT
Sold
Time to start bagging some minis now then!
How would you all structute this build in say 500pt chuncks starting at 1500 so I can play and build/paint in segments??
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Post by crownprinceimrik on Apr 12, 2019 8:37:38 GMT
You can start as low as 1000 if you'd like, I've had fun 1000 point games. Then to get experience playing the list as a whole I'd try to have the original units all feature in each tier, so all of the lists have two units of Warriors and a unit of Knights and a Nurgle Sorcerer and then steadily increase those units for each 500 point increment and also add in the other units as well. You can add in one unit of Warhounds for each 500 from 1500 to 2500 for example. Dragon Ogres should probably come in soon, you can hold off on the second Gorebeast Chariot and the extra rank on the Knight block until 2500, and I'd say the BSB is needed at 2000 points at the latest, ideally 1500.
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Post by Sweet_Totally on Apr 12, 2019 9:57:20 GMT
Would the lord be better on a normal stead? I've never actually tried out a Daemonic Steed so take what I say with a grain of salt but yes, IMO the lord is better off on a normal steed since it keeps him from being targeted by artillery and magic. The Lord is safe enough with a 4+ wardsave and 1+ armour save that losing the additional T that the Daemonic Mount brings isn't too much of a loss.
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Post by crownprinceimrik on Apr 12, 2019 10:40:36 GMT
I've never actually tried out a Daemonic Steed so take what I say with a grain of salt but yes, IMO the lord is better off on a normal steed since it keeps him from being targeted by artillery and magic. The Lord is safe enough with a 4+ wardsave and 1+ armour save that losing the additional T that the Daemonic Mount brings isn't too much of a loss. The lord on daemonic steed cannot be targeted any more easily than a normal steed so long as he's embedded in the unit of Knights so I don't see it as an issue. He's got a larger base which will make him a bit more vulnerable to CC attacks but he's pretty tanky as is and the extra toughness helps with that.
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Post by gregr on Apr 12, 2019 12:57:53 GMT
Sold Time to start bagging some minis now then! How would you all structute this build in say 500pt chuncks starting at 1500 so I can play and build/paint in segments?? The other way to build which I find is most fun if you have someone to play against is to do a slow build campaign. Starting with like 500 pts which has one hero and a core unit then add another 250pts and work up every couple of weeks. That way you get to try out how the units play too.
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