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Post by strutsagget on Apr 14, 2019 16:41:06 GMT
You have a lot of points in core. I would use some of the GG as scouts instead.
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Post by sophid on Apr 14, 2019 17:01:55 GMT
You have a lot of points in core. I would use some of the GG as scouts instead.
In looking at how I modeled my plastic glade guard, I probably have enough of them with hoods to roll with that, especially once I mix in some of the hooded Skarloc guys... I'd hesitate to reclassify more than ten, because then I'm relying on my opponent playing make-believe with me about who's a GG and who's a scout... As it stands now, I can definitely come up with 10 plausibly 'scouty' archers. How do people usually handle that? I also assumed that I'd need to use un-duplicated arrow types, which isn't that brutal...
It's still a lot of core, but:
++ Standard (Wood Elves - Army Book (2014-5) -V8.8.0.) [2400pts] ++
+ Lords [290pts] +
Spellweaver [290pts]: (BRB) Earthing Rod [25pts], (BRB) Talisman of Preservation [45pts], Lore of Shadow, Wizard Level 4 [35pts]
+ Heroes [259pts] +
Glade Captain [154pts]: (AB) Hail of Doom Arrow [30pts], (BRB) Charmed Shield [5pts], (BRB) Opal Amulet [15pts], Battle Standard [25pts], Great Weapon [4pts]
Spellsinger [105pts]: (BRB) Dispel Scroll [25pts], Lore of Life, Wizard Level 1
+ Core [916pts] +
Eternal Guard [390pts]: Champion [10pts], Musician [10pts], Standard Bearer [10pts] . 30x Eternal Guard [360pts]: 30x Shields [30pts]
Glade Guard [160pts]: Musician [10pts] . 10x Glade Guard [150pts]: 10x Hagbane Tips [30pts]
Glade Guard [170pts]: Musician [10pts] . 10x Glade Guard [160pts]: 10x Swiftshiver Shards [40pts]
Glade Riders [196pts]: Musician [10pts], Standard Bearer [10pts] . 8x Glade Riders [176pts]: 8x Trueflight Arrows [24pts]
+ Special [735pts] +
Deepwood Scouts [180pts]: Musician [10pts] . 10x Deepwood Scouts [170pts]: 10x Starfire Shafts [40pts]
Tree Kin [270pts]: 6x Tree Kin [270pts]
Wardancers [75pts]: 5x Wardancer [75pts]
Wardancers [75pts]: 5x Wardancer [75pts]
Warhawk Riders [135pts]: 3x Warhawk Riders [135pts]
+ Rare [200pts] +
Waywatchers [100pts]: 5x Waywatchers [100pts]
Waywatchers [100pts]: 5x Waywatchers [100pts]
++ Total: [2400pts] ++
Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)
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Post by strutsagget on Apr 14, 2019 17:09:33 GMT
Scouts are perfect for hagbane tips. As then they can double up with WM hunting. 12 scouts with hagbane kills a 3 wound war machine per turn.
I just go with the models I have as there is no diff on models. As scouts are skirmishers they are visible difference anyway.
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Post by sophid on Apr 14, 2019 17:43:54 GMT
Scouts are perfect for hagbane tips. As then they can double up with WM hunting. 12 scouts with hagbane kills a 3 wound war machine per turn. I just go with the models I have as there is no diff on models. As scouts are skirmishers they are visible difference anyway.
Well, in that case... If I add a Lichebone Pennant to my EG, that gives me enough points in core to do away with all of the GG entirely... Assuming I could spam one arrow type, I could run something like this:
++ Standard (Wood Elves - Army Book (2014-5) -V8.8.0.) [2399pts] ++
+ Lords [290pts] +
Spellweaver [290pts]: (BRB) Earthing Rod [25pts], (BRB) Talisman of Preservation [45pts], Lore of Shadow, Wizard Level 4 [35pts]
+ Heroes [259pts] +
Glade Captain [154pts]: (AB) Hail of Doom Arrow [30pts], (BRB) Charmed Shield [5pts], (BRB) Opal Amulet [15pts], Battle Standard [25pts], Great Weapon [4pts]
Spellsinger [105pts]: (BRB) Dispel Scroll [25pts], Lore of Life, Wizard Level 1
+ Core [601pts] +
Eternal Guard [405pts] . Champion [10pts] . 30x Eternal Guard [360pts]: 30x Shields [30pts] . Musician [10pts] . Standard Bearer [25pts]: (BRB) Lichebone Pennant [15pts]
Glade Riders [196pts]: Musician [10pts], Standard Bearer [10pts] . 8x Glade Riders [176pts]: 8x Trueflight Arrows [24pts]
+ Special [1049pts] +
Deepwood Scouts [90pts]: Musician [10pts] . 5x Deepwood Scouts [80pts]: 5x Trueflight Arrows [15pts]
Deepwood Scouts [202pts]: Musician [10pts] . 12x Deepwood Scouts [192pts]: 12x Hagbane Tips [36pts]
Deepwood Scouts [202pts]: Musician [10pts] . 12x Deepwood Scouts [192pts]: 12x Hagbane Tips [36pts]
Tree Kin [270pts]: 6x Tree Kin [270pts]
Wardancers [75pts]: 5x Wardancer [75pts]
Wardancers [75pts]: 5x Wardancer [75pts]
Warhawk Riders [135pts]: 3x Warhawk Riders [135pts]
+ Rare [200pts] +
Waywatchers [100pts]: 5x Waywatchers [100pts]
Waywatchers [100pts]: 5x Waywatchers [100pts]
++ Total: [2399pts] ++
Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Apr 15, 2019 11:54:19 GMT
Well they kind of wrote the army book without checking the first rule in the brb - magic items(big red book - the main rulebook) that limits alla magic items to be selected once. Then they never override that rule in the AB :/ Most people would agree it was a mistake and allows it but it is one of those you should check with an opponent. The same goes for extra attack by frenzy on wild riders great stags. To add to strutsagget : RAW, the Enchanted Arrows cannot be duplicated, and the Fury special rule applies to both the Wild Riders and the Stag. Until evidence of the contrary, one must assume that RAW=RAI, and the wording of these rules actually indicates that this is the case here too. That said, if you and your opponent agree, feel free to play it differently.
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Post by sophid on Apr 15, 2019 14:10:04 GMT
Well they kind of wrote the army book without checking the first rule in the brb - magic items(big red book - the main rulebook) that limits alla magic items to be selected once. Then they never override that rule in the AB :/ Most people would agree it was a mistake and allows it but it is one of those you should check with an opponent. The same goes for extra attack by frenzy on wild riders great stags. To add to strutsagget : RAW, the Enchanted Arrows cannot be duplicated, and the Fury special rule applies to both the Wild Riders and the Stag. Until evidence of the contrary, one must assume that RAW=RAI, and the wording of these rules actually indicates that this is the case here too. That said, if you and your opponent agree, feel free to play it differently.
At this point in my WFB journey, I am simply a sponge - my RB will likely arrive in the mail today; that's how new I am to 8th. I saw considerable back-and-forth on this issue online, with several regional clubs and such allowing duplicate arrow types as RAI.. BUT, none of those people represent any binding authority on the matter, and we'll never have that clarification now. I have no idea what types of players I'll encounter, or how accommodating they'll be when granting me an advantage.
It seems to me that overall, 8th edition lends itself toward larger unit formations. Erring on the side of RaW for the enchanted arrows would likely also mean taking larger units of archers, to avoid the costly, less-useful types. Some units could also be used without the arrows, but I've never seen that in an 8th edition list, ever.
I've seen contradictory advice on that issue - some people say run archers as MSU, to be more flexible. Others say to run them bigger, so they aren't taking panic tests in the first turn. Now I'm sure someone will respond with something like, "You're the general, Sophid; you must discover the truth for yourself."
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Post by livewaaaaagh on Apr 15, 2019 15:48:26 GMT
Well they kind of wrote the army book without checking the first rule in the brb - magic items(big red book - the main rulebook) that limits alla magic items to be selected once. Then they never override that rule in the AB :/ Most people would agree it was a mistake and allows it but it is one of those you should check with an opponent. The same goes for extra attack by frenzy on wild riders great stags. To add to strutsagget : RAW, the Enchanted Arrows cannot be duplicated, and the Fury special rule applies to both the Wild Riders and the Stag. Until evidence of the contrary, one must assume that RAW=RAI, and the wording of these rules actually indicates that this is the case here too. That said, if you and your opponent agree, feel free to play it differently. To confirm - do you mean that if one unit of Glade Guard are taking Hagbane tips, no other unit of Glade guard (or Glade riders, or Scouts) can take?
If I understand that correctly, I have personally never seen it played this way in any tournament or game I've ever been a part of it, with most bringing several copies of hagbane or trueflight. Back in the Asrai.org days (RIP), I don't recall this in any army comp I ever saw.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Apr 15, 2019 16:19:27 GMT
That is how the rules currently work. Obviously, most Wood Elves players rejected this from the start, referring to RAI. However, the Wood Elves AB writer was quite aware of the implications of designating them "enchanted items," which undermines the assumption that RAW =/= RAI.
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Post by livewaaaaagh on Apr 15, 2019 16:22:40 GMT
Interesting - never seen it play as such in any game or trouanment, and like you said most Wood Elves players never followed that rule. MYself being one of them on the few times I've played wood Elves.
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Post by strutsagget on Apr 15, 2019 17:44:17 GMT
However, the Wood Elves AB writer was quite aware of the implications of designating them "enchanted items," which undermines the assumption that RAW =/= RAI. That’s an opinion though and not facts. Seen too many mistakes to gives any GW writer that credit 🤪😂
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Post by strutsagget on Apr 15, 2019 17:51:24 GMT
Scouts are perfect for hagbane tips. As then they can double up with WM hunting. 12 scouts with hagbane kills a 3 wound war machine per turn. I just go with the models I have as there is no diff on models. As scouts are skirmishers they are visible difference anyway.
Well, in that case... If I add a Lichebone Pennant to my EG, that gives me enough points in core to do away with all of the GG entirely... Assuming I could spam one arrow type, I could run something like this:
++ Standard (Wood Elves - Army Book (2014-5) -V8.8.0.) [2399pts] ++
+ Lords [290pts] +
Spellweaver [290pts]: (BRB) Earthing Rod [25pts], (BRB) Talisman of Preservation [45pts], Lore of Shadow, Wizard Level 4 [35pts]
+ Heroes [259pts] +
Glade Captain [154pts]: (AB) Hail of Doom Arrow [30pts], (BRB) Charmed Shield [5pts], (BRB) Opal Amulet [15pts], Battle Standard [25pts], Great Weapon [4pts]
Spellsinger [105pts]: (BRB) Dispel Scroll [25pts], Lore of Life, Wizard Level 1
+ Core [601pts] +
Eternal Guard [405pts] . Champion [10pts] . 30x Eternal Guard [360pts]: 30x Shields [30pts] . Musician [10pts] . Standard Bearer [25pts]: (BRB) Lichebone Pennant [15pts]
Glade Riders [196pts]: Musician [10pts], Standard Bearer [10pts] . 8x Glade Riders [176pts]: 8x Trueflight Arrows [24pts]
+ Special [1049pts] +
Deepwood Scouts [90pts]: Musician [10pts] . 5x Deepwood Scouts [80pts]: 5x Trueflight Arrows [15pts]
Deepwood Scouts [202pts]: Musician [10pts] . 12x Deepwood Scouts [192pts]: 12x Hagbane Tips [36pts]
Deepwood Scouts [202pts]: Musician [10pts] . 12x Deepwood Scouts [192pts]: 12x Hagbane Tips [36pts]
Tree Kin [270pts]: 6x Tree Kin [270pts]
Wardancers [75pts]: 5x Wardancer [75pts]
Wardancers [75pts]: 5x Wardancer [75pts]
Warhawk Riders [135pts]: 3x Warhawk Riders [135pts]
+ Rare [200pts] +
Waywatchers [100pts]: 5x Waywatchers [100pts]
Waywatchers [100pts]: 5x Waywatchers [100pts]
++ Total: [2399pts] ++
Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)
Back to the list. Not sure you need to go full way scouts or glade guard. You need some bunker for your mages so might as well use GG with true flight. Unless you think about putting all three with eternal guard? I would probably run something else then life on the level 1. Both shadow and beast have great signature but that’s just my personal preference.
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Post by sophid on Apr 15, 2019 18:13:44 GMT
Back to the list. Not sure you need to go full way scouts or glade guard. You need some bunker for your mages so might as well use GG with true flight. Unless you think about putting all three with eternal guard? I would probably run something else then life on the level 1. Both shadow and beast have great signature but that’s just my personal preference.
I was torn between shadow and fire for the level 1... I think I can use all the shadow I can get, since I'll be relying on debuffs a lot.
That's one reason I was wondering about using the Wardancers as a bunker - I'm afraid that if I put all three characters with the eternal guard, it'll be too many eggs in one basket and it'll get smashed. I was thinking of bunkering the BSB with the EG (assuming there's nothing wonky, rules-wise, about having a BSB in a unit that has its own standard), and you're right - I'll have to reserve at least some of my archers as GG for additional bunkers for the casters. Same issue there - if I bunker both casters in one unit of GG, I'm afraid it will draw more than its fair share of attention.
At what point, unit-size-wise, does it become economical to take full command (champion, standard, musician)? Without command, I'm a few models short for this list, but that's easy to fix..
++ Standard (Wood Elves - Army Book (2014-5) -V8.8.0.) [2400pts] ++
+ Lords [290pts] +
Spellweaver [290pts]: (BRB) Earthing Rod [25pts], (BRB) Talisman of Preservation [45pts], Lore of Shadow, Wizard Level 4 [35pts]
+ Heroes [257pts] +
Glade Captain [152pts]: (AB) Hail of Doom Arrow [30pts], (BRB) Charmed Shield [5pts], (BRB) Opal Amulet [15pts], Asrai Spear [2pts], Battle Standard [25pts]
Spellsinger [105pts]: (BRB) Dispel Scroll [25pts], Lore of Shadow, Wizard Level 1
+ Core [896pts] +
Eternal Guard [380pts]: Musician [10pts], Standard Bearer [10pts] . 30x Eternal Guard [360pts]: 30x Shields [30pts]
Glade Guard [160pts]: Musician [10pts] . 10x Glade Guard [150pts]: 10x Trueflight Arrows [30pts]
Glade Guard [160pts]: Musician [10pts] . 10x Glade Guard [150pts]: 10x Trueflight Arrows [30pts]
Glade Riders [196pts]: Musician [10pts], Standard Bearer [10pts] . 8x Glade Riders [176pts]: 8x Trueflight Arrows [24pts]
+ Special [757pts] +
Deepwood Scouts [202pts]: Musician [10pts] . 12x Deepwood Scouts [192pts]: 12x Hagbane Tips [36pts]
Tree Kin [270pts]: 6x Tree Kin [270pts]
Wardancers [75pts]: 5x Wardancer [75pts]
Wardancers [75pts]: 5x Wardancer [75pts]
Warhawk Riders [135pts]: 3x Warhawk Riders [135pts]
+ Rare [200pts] +
Waywatchers [100pts]: 5x Waywatchers [100pts]
Waywatchers [100pts]: 5x Waywatchers [100pts]
++ Total: [2400pts] ++
Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)
I'm going back and forth on the number of glade guard vs scouts, but do consider important that I have sufficient bunker space for my characters. Trueflight vs. Hagbane for the GG is debatable as well, I see them being somewhat mobile so the penalty-free shooting would be ideal. It just depends on who I'm fighting...
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Post by strutsagget on Apr 15, 2019 19:08:02 GMT
If you go life on level 1 then I would probably bunker her with the treekins. So you always have target in reach for both signature and lore attribute. She will live in a little danger though as treekins will support with being in combat.
Shadow and you can put her way back as miasma have great reach and don’t need line of sight. Also fit very well with double signature in a shooty list to cripple movement and give you more shooting phases. Also cheap so a level one in a forest can one dice it.
Beast signature is pretty awesome as it gives you both s and t making both eternal guard and treekins very potent forces. And lore attribute works with treekins.
Fireball is always useful but think with that much shooting you should have enough to kill chaff and lonely models and I would probably rather give more options to buff/debuffs.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Apr 15, 2019 21:05:37 GMT
However, the Wood Elves AB writer was quite aware of the implications of designating them "enchanted items," which undermines the assumption that RAW =/= RAI. That’s an opinion though and not facts. Seen too many mistakes to gives any GW writer that credit 🤪😂 Sorry, but that is a fact, not an opinion. Wood Elves Army Book p. 37: "These are enchanted items, but do not prevent a model from having a second enchanted item." So, this is undeniable proof that the author was aware of the restrictions regarding magical items. I'll leave it at that, since this thread is not the right place to discuss this.
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Post by strutsagget on Apr 15, 2019 21:35:09 GMT
That’s an opinion though and not facts. Seen too many mistakes to gives any GW writer that credit 🤪😂 Sorry, but that is a fact, not an opinion. Wood Elves Army Book p. 37: "These are enchanted items, but do not prevent a model from having a second enchanted item." So, this is undeniable proof that the author was aware of the restrictions regarding magical items. I'll leave it at that, since this thread is not the right place to discuss this. I am not talking about the rule I am talking about the assumption he/they knew about every implication. Then we wouldn’t have any FAQs would we?
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