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Post by strutsagget on May 16, 2019 19:10:40 GMT
I wonder if you can aim a mangler squig into a close combat? If yes how do you resolve hits?
Is it different for Mangler Squigs then other random movements?
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Post by crownprinceimrik on May 16, 2019 20:31:17 GMT
My understanding is that you can aim them into a close combat. Instead of stopping, they would bounce through the other side of the close combat. Any unit they moved through would then take the hits, so if you aim it right and only hit enemy units then your units would be safe. Of course safe is a relative term when you subsequently have a random direction random movement Mangler right next to a combat.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on May 17, 2019 16:56:45 GMT
What crownprinceimrik says. Random Movers, just like any other unit, can be aimed into CC, as long as they do not end up in contact with the friendly unit engaged in that CC. Because of the Ker-Splat! special rule, Mangler Squids can, indeed, must contact their own units too, if that is where the movement leads them.
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Post by Lizards_of_Renown on Aug 21, 2020 18:20:56 GMT
Is there anything that actually says what happens when they go into combat though? Seems to be an opinion rather than an FAQ or point of a BRB rule...
In my last battle, a Saurus unit and an Ancient Stegadon were in combat with a Night Goblin unit.
He had a Mangler Squig run into the combat as he didn't care about the Goblins (fair enough).
But then I hit a question. He was totally certain that it means that all three units then suffer 2D6 S6 armour piercing hits and it pops out the other side.
I thought that it would be randomized since any shooting into combat gets randomized (since the models are in a swirling melee, not clearly laid out as you see them).
He stated correctly that the Mangler Squig rules didn't say "distribute hits as for shooting" as it does in Impact Hits or similar rules.
Still seems very odd.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Aug 21, 2020 21:05:29 GMT
As indicated above, it is all in the Ker-Splat! special rule.
Orcs & Goblins AB p. 56: "Ker-splat! If the Mangler Squigs' move would bring them into contact with another unit, then they move through rather than stopping. If the Mangler Squigs' move would end within a unit, place the Mangler Squigs 1" beyond the unit, in the direction in which they were moving.
When Mangler Squigs move through a unit they inflict 2D6 Strength 6 Armour Piercing hits."
So, any unit the Mangler Squig moves through, suffers 2D6 hits - which are distributed like shooting attacks inside that unit.
That the Mangler Squig pass through all units is confirmed by
Orcs & Goblins Official Update Version 1.2, p.2: Q: What happens if a Mangler Squig hits a unit and there is not room to place it an inch out the other side of the unit? (p56) A: There are several possibilities here also. Points 1 and 3 are the same as for the Fanatic above whilst point 2 is different: 2) If there is not space to fit the Mangler Squig between the unit it hit and the board edge, then it will end its move in the unit, deal the extra hits and be destroyed as normal.
Point 1 for the Fanatic: 1) If placing the Fanatic an inch away from the unit that was hit brings it into contact with another unit, then that unit will also be hit and the Fanatic should then be placed an inch beyond that unit.
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Post by Lizards_of_Renown on Aug 21, 2020 22:05:11 GMT
As indicated above, it is all in the Ker-Splat! special rule. Orcs & Goblins AB p. 56: "Ker-splat! If the Mangler Squigs' move would bring them into contact with another unit, then they move through rather than stopping. If the Mangler Squigs' move would end within a unit, place the Mangler Squigs 1" beyond the unit, in the direction in which they were moving. When Mangler Squigs move through a unit they inflict 2D6 Strength 6 Armour Piercing hits." So, any unit the Mangler Squig moves through, suffers 2D6 hits - which are distributed like shooting attacks inside that unit. That the Mangler Squig pass through all units is confirmed by Orcs & Goblins Official Update Version 1.2, p.2: Q: What happens if a Mangler Squig hits a unit and there is not room to place it an inch out the other side of the unit? (p56) A: There are several possibilities here also. Points 1 and 3 are the same as for the Fanatic above whilst point 2 is different: 2) If there is not space to fit the Mangler Squig between the unit it hit and the board edge, then it will end its move in the unit, deal the extra hits and be destroyed as normal. Point 1 for the Fanatic: 1) If placing the Fanatic an inch away from the unit that was hit brings it into contact with another unit, then that unit will also be hit and the Fanatic should then be placed an inch beyond that unit. It just seems funny. You can’t shoot into combat as all of the warriors are mixed up and if you’re forced to you have to randomise. But a Mangler can angle so that he only hits the enemy and this is fine? Seems to be contrary. I have no question on the above. It’s just on the combat point. Thanks for chipping in, I need some help on this.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Aug 21, 2020 22:45:48 GMT
I am not quite sure where the problem is. The Mangler Squigs have their own version of the Random Movement special rule. While normal Random Movers cannot declare charges, but can execute a charge, the Mangler Squig can neither: it just moves through any unit it contacts.
If you combine the relevant rules, the sequence here is:
1. Pivot the centre of the Mangler Squig to face the direction in which you wish it to travel. 2. Roll the dice shown in the model's profile. 3. Measure the distance in a straight line to see whether you come into contact with another unit. 4. Move the model directly forwards a number of inches equal to the total rolled by the dice. - If the random move brings the unit to within 1" of impassable terrain, it stops immediately and cannot move further during that Movement phase. - If the Mangler Squigs' move would bring them into contact with another unit, then they move through rather than stopping. If the Mangler Squigs' move would end within a unit, place the Mangler Squigs 1" beyond the unit, in the direction in which they were moving. If placing the Mangle Squig an inch away from the unit that was hit brings it into contact with another unit, then that unit will also be hit and the Mangler Squig should then be placed an inch beyond that unit.
When Mangler Squigs move through a unit they inflict 2D6 Strength 6 Armour Piercing hits.
Note: the Mangler Squig is neither a shooting nor a close combat attack attack. Their hits are distributed like a shooting attack, because they follow the rules for Unusual Attacks (BRB p. 42):
"Resolving Unusual Attacks There are several circumstances in Warhammer that call upon you to inflict hits upon an enemy — spells being an obvious example (the Fireball spell causes D6 Strength 4 hits on an enemy unit), as well as things like the Impact Hits made by a charging chariot (covered in the Special Rules chapter). Such hits are resolved using steps 4, 5 and 6 of the rules for shooting attacks.
The only exceptions are hits caused by close combat attacks — these are discussed in the Close Combat chapter (page 46)."
This has nothing to do with the number of units you can hit, only how the hits are distributed within a unit that has suffered hits. Since the Ker-Splat! special rules specifies that "When Mangler Squigs move through a unit they inflict 2D6 Strength 6 Armour Piercing hits," any unit they move through suffers those hits.
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Post by Horace on Aug 22, 2020 11:02:37 GMT
As indicated above, it is all in the Ker-Splat! special rule. Orcs & Goblins AB p. 56: "Ker-splat! If the Mangler Squigs' move would bring them into contact with another unit, then they move through rather than stopping. If the Mangler Squigs' move would end within a unit, place the Mangler Squigs 1" beyond the unit, in the direction in which they were moving. When Mangler Squigs move through a unit they inflict 2D6 Strength 6 Armour Piercing hits." So, any unit the Mangler Squig moves through, suffers 2D6 hits - which are distributed like shooting attacks inside that unit. That the Mangler Squig pass through all units is confirmed by Orcs & Goblins Official Update Version 1.2, p.2: Q: What happens if a Mangler Squig hits a unit and there is not room to place it an inch out the other side of the unit? (p56) A: There are several possibilities here also. Points 1 and 3 are the same as for the Fanatic above whilst point 2 is different: 2) If there is not space to fit the Mangler Squig between the unit it hit and the board edge, then it will end its move in the unit, deal the extra hits and be destroyed as normal. Point 1 for the Fanatic: 1) If placing the Fanatic an inch away from the unit that was hit brings it into contact with another unit, then that unit will also be hit and the Fanatic should then be placed an inch beyond that unit. It just seems funny. You can’t shoot into combat as all of the warriors are mixed up and if you’re forced to you have to randomise. But a Mangler can angle so that he only hits the enemy and this is fine? Seems to be contrary. I have no question on the above. It’s just on the combat point. Thanks for chipping in, I need some help on this. I do agree and came across this the first time I did this. It seems contrary because you can not aim templates at enemy units in combat because they are all supposed to be mixed up. Yet you can run a mangler over their ranked models and just deal hits to them. Rules wise this is fine, it just feels a bit wonky in my opinion.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Aug 25, 2020 11:40:25 GMT
Lizards_of_Renown : I noted your other question, o ver at Lustria, about Stupidity and Animosity. The discussion there missed a relevant FAQ, and, regarding the specific question of charging, it seems nobody actually read the Animosity special rule: the unit only has to declare a charge, if it is able to. Since the rules are not mutually exclusive, it is not a case of AB>BRB, but of sequencing. In general, when "two or more rules are to be resolved at the same time [...] and the wording is not explicit as to which rule is resolved first, then the player whose turn it is chooses the order" (BRB p. 10). Since both special rules happen at the start of the turn, the O&G player can choose which test to take first. Here the following FAQ comes in: Official Update Version 1.9, p.9: Q: Can a unit that has failed a Stupidity test be forced to move, or perform any other action, by a spell, or other special rule/magic item? (p76) A: Yes. The relevant word there is “forced.” Actions that are not forced are still subject to Stupidity. Unless I still have missed something, this resulst in the following possibilities. 1. Failed Stupidity test, failed Animosity test: In all cases, the unit first stumbles D6” forward. Then, the Animosity result is applied, if not subject to Stupidity: - Get ‘Em: Applied normally, but the unit cannot take any other action that turn (including channeling). - Squabble: Because of Stupidity, they cannot declare a charge. Hence, the unit cannot take any action (including channeling). - We'll Show 'Em: The unit will pivot and move, but since it is subject to Stupidity, it cannot declare a charge, nor can it take any other action. 2. Failed Animosity test, failed Stupidity test. - Get ‘Em: Applied normally; but since it cannot move, the unit does not stumble D6” forward, nor can it take any other action (including channeling). - Squabble: Because of Stupidity, they cannot declare a charge; because of Squabble they cannot move. Hence, the unit cannot take any action at all (including channeling or stumbling forward). - We'll Show 'Em: The unit will pivot and move, but since it is afterwards subject to Stupidity, it cannot declare a charge. Since it is allowed to move, it will stumble D6” forward. Other than that, it cannot take any further action (including channeling).
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