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Post by knoffles on Jun 12, 2019 7:13:23 GMT
Another tip by Malorian. This was aimed at slaves but could be adapted to other armies.
The biggest weakness of slaves is because they are so poor, they can lose models very fast and you want to ensure you maximise their ability to hold up an enemy unit so you both pin it in place and can pour support team fire and magic into it to destroy it.
One way of doing this is to field a 15pt bare bones engineer in the unit. As an opponent approaches, the Engineer can move out his 10” in order to block the approaching unit. This unit then has the decision on what to do?
Do they hold or reform or do they charge and kill the engineer? (There is almost no doubt they will kill him). Either way you get another round of shooting/magic on them in your turn from them not moving or if they overrun, with an average of 7”, they may not make it into the slaves, which apart from again giving the extra round of shooting/magic, gives an added bonus of if the slaves aren’t already in combat, the slaves have avoided another round of combat against them and so will hold around for longer.
So although you could buy another rank and a bit of slaves for the same cost, consider investing those points in an engineer to go with the slaves.
As an aside, if you were thinking of taking an engineer anyway, in order to take a one use item like the doom rocket, then you have a win win situation.
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Post by vulcan on Jun 12, 2019 16:42:43 GMT
Except the optimum spot for using one-use items like the doomrocket is rarely 'in a slave unit'...
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Post by knoffles on Jun 12, 2019 16:51:35 GMT
Except the optimum spot for using one-use items like the doomrocket is rarely 'in a slave unit'... I will say the last bit was mine. I’ve only faced Skaven a few times in 8th and the rocket was always fired off pretty early on (normally to devestating effect). I can understand not wanting to put a scroll caddy or the like in the unit but any reason why not a rocket man? Is it purely in case using the item early wasn’t the best option, so you wouldn’t then use him as a further chaff option due to the item remaining?
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Post by ryryak2 on Jun 12, 2019 21:24:08 GMT
I think it's a good idea I may try it out. Bonus points if your entire front rank is engineers and you do this one at a time.
Problem for me though is even though they're 15 points I don't play large enough games to justify taking a multitude of engineers. They are to fill specific needs: magic resistance, ward saves against warmachines, and then doomrocket, brass orb, and the other toy who's name eludes me.
I think a slave unit that makes contact with the enemy that has a character still in it is a wasted opportunity as you can no longer fire into that combat. And that's something that I'm ALWAYS looking to do.
EDIT: I don't ever think it's a good idea to sacrifice 7/8 slaves for an engineer. That could mean the difference between steadfast or not steadfast after a given combat, and slaves are typically what give skaven the numbers that they so desperately need.
I'd wager that it's probably better to sacrifice something like a weapon team for a few engineers precisely for this trick.
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Post by crownprinceimrik on Jun 12, 2019 21:33:26 GMT
The trick is an interesting idea, but it requires that the enemy advance straight on towards the Skaven Slaves, and the Slaves hold back. That's contrary to how I see Slaves used most of the time, I've usually seen them push forwards aggressively to try and stick themselves in the face of the opponent. The tactic could definitely work, but I'm a bit dubious about it, I'd be interested to see it used in a game rather than just in theory-hammer.
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Post by strutsagget on Jun 13, 2019 6:06:53 GMT
I faced this tactics and it was very annoying for my first game with a witch elves death star.
I ran everywhere except where I wanted my cauldron and elves to be.
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Post by knoffles on Jun 13, 2019 6:22:21 GMT
I faced this tactics and it was very annoying for my first game with a witch elves death star. I ran everywhere except where I wanted my cauldron and elves to be. Serves you right for taking a witch elf death star 🤣🤣
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Post by vulcan on Jun 13, 2019 15:27:16 GMT
I find the doomrocket is much more effective fired from the far flank, straight down the length of the enemy line. Even if it misses the unit I was aiming at, it will hit something to good effect. Thus, the doomrocket engineer usually is placed next to the Grey Seer (if there is one) who has Skitterleap available to cast. Likewise the Brass Orb; there are specific targets it's most effective at dealing with so using Skitterleap to get the Engineer there is usually more productive than having him in a random slave unit.
Now having naked engineers in a slave unit, THAT works just fine.
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Post by rahotep75 on Jun 14, 2019 4:41:51 GMT
As a long time Skaven player, I feel that the suicide naked Engineer is a lame tactic and unsportsmanlike. I don't think it's in the spirit of the game and especially in the spirit of Skaven characters. There are more flavorful ways of getting chaff and redirectors that are almost as cheap (point wise).
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Post by vulcan on Jun 15, 2019 0:52:50 GMT
I favor rat darts myself, as they help draw out deployment.
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Post by ryryak2 on Jun 17, 2019 16:55:51 GMT
As a long time Skaven player, I feel that the suicide naked Engineer is a lame tactic and unsportsmanlike. I don't think it's in the spirit of the game and especially in the spirit of Skaven characters. There are more flavorful ways of getting chaff and redirectors that are almost as cheap (point wise). Whilst I partly agree with this sentiment (I know I wouldn't like being on the receiving end of this) I think a grey seer/warlord sacrificing an underling whom he suspects is spying/planning treachery is a perfectly Skaven move!
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Post by knoffles on Jun 17, 2019 18:33:22 GMT
As a long time Skaven player, I feel that the suicide naked Engineer is a lame tactic and unsportsmanlike. I don't think it's in the spirit of the game and especially in the spirit of Skaven characters. There are more flavorful ways of getting chaff and redirectors that are almost as cheap (point wise). Whilst I partly agree with this sentiment (I know I wouldn't like being on the receiving end of this) I think a grey seer/warlord sacrificing an underling whom he suspects is spying/planning treachery is a perfectly Skaven move! I can imagine them being shoved from behind and stumbling out of the safety of the unit into the path of the oncoming unit, musk glands squirting in fear!
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