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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Feb 10, 2021 10:06:58 GMT
Fluff has no bearing on the rules. That said, if you want a fluff argument: animals know fear too, and with the chariots both the crew and the mounts have learned to fear elves together. The character is riding a wolf, that has not learned to fear elves yet. However, if you and your opponent agree, feel free to deviate from the rules.
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Post by anechrome on Feb 10, 2021 12:26:57 GMT
Yeeeeah, but fluffwise that would mean that if you took an elffearing wolf from a chariot and jumped on it's back, it instantly unlearned that elves are scary. But then again, applying logic to GW rules is probably fruitless.
Followup question then: Does this mean that a magical effect, say an added frenzy from an Altar of Khaine, also gives frenzy to mounts since it says it effects the unit?
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Feb 10, 2021 12:37:18 GMT
Yes.
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Post by anechrome on Feb 10, 2021 13:52:16 GMT
So the Vamp counts errata regarding frenzy on the blood knight unit is supposed to be specific to just that unit?
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Feb 10, 2021 15:15:25 GMT
Yes, just like the Empire FAQ specifying that the Righteous Fury and Battle Prayers of a Warrior Priest did not affect mounts. For a general exception, one needs to adjust the general rule.
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Post by anechrome on Feb 10, 2021 15:33:27 GMT
But if it was only meant to chage the unit, shouldn't it have been in the errata rather than the FAQ? The FAQ seems to be more often adressing how rules should be interpreted than for actual changes (as in adding Rider only).
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Feb 10, 2021 17:23:25 GMT
Theoretically perhaps. There is no small number of FAQ that should have been errata. In some cases, one may be tempted to use AB Update Versions as precedents, but, ultimately, they remain AB specific, except the very few cases where they actually invoke the general rule. Indeed, in the past, the UV of different ABs have come up with different answers to what is basically the same question.
The funny thing is many of these issues are not actually new. The question of Frenzy/Hatred and mounts has returned in every BRB edition at least since 6th. This is the FAQ from the 7th edition:
Q. The rules for Frenzy say that frenzied “models” gain +1 Attack. How does this work with models that comprise of different parts, like a frenzied cavalry model or a frenzied Chariot with two steeds and two crew? And how about Hatred? A. As with characters (see “Mounts' psychology” on page 79), the entire model is affected by the psychology rule. This means that both riders and steeds (in case of cavalry), all crew and creatures (in case of chariots) or both the character and the Monster he's riding, gain one Attack from Frenzy, can re-roll their attacks for Hatred, etc.
Since the 8th edition BRB Update Version has not addressed the question, the rule remains that spells and special rules bestowed on units affect everyone within that unit.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Feb 10, 2021 17:43:32 GMT
To add:
1. The Savage Orc Boar Boyz have "Frenzy (Savage Orcs only)." So, at least this AB writer assumed that Frenzy normally would affect both rider & mount. 2. And since you asked whether there is any other animal that has Hatred, see Monster reaction Table, Raaargh!: "The monster fights on as normal, but is subject to Frenzy and Hatred of all enemies for the rest of the game."
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Post by anechrome on Feb 10, 2021 17:43:39 GMT
Hehe, yeah, I remember we tried that out back in the day. Sent the same question to GW several times and got different answers. I wish there was a way to hunt down the authors and force them to clarify all these things once and for all. If only I could find out where they lived... >=)
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