Buxe
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Posts: 135
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Post by Buxe on Jan 23, 2022 21:53:43 GMT
Hi all, I need some help to shave off 21 points... I don't "want" to take anything out of the list, but I must. So I hope you guys have some good ideas for me. + Lords [290pts] +Spellweaver [290pts] - Book of Ashur [70pts]
- Lore of Life, Wizard Level 4 [35pts]
Goes into the EG bunker + Heroes [509pts] +Glade Captain [209pts] - Hail of Doom Arrow [30pts]
- Enchanted Shield [5pts]
- Opal Amulet [15pts]
- Arcane Bodkins [5pts]
- Asrai Longbow
- Asrai Spear [2pts]
- Battle Standard [25pts]
- Light Armor, Shield [2pts]
- Great Eagle [50pts]
Does what a mobile BSB does, either on his own or with warhawks. Spellsinger [190pts] - Power Stone [20pts]
- Asrai Longbow [5pts]
- Lore of Beasts, Wizard Level 2 [35pts]
- Great Eagle [50pts]
To buff wild riders and warhawks.
Waystalker [110pts] Goes into EG, to execute troublesome CC characters before they reach combat. + Core [800pts] +
Eternal Guard [345pts] - Asrai Spear
- Light Armour
- 25x Eternal Guard [300pts]
- 25x Shields [25pts]
- Champion [10pts]
- Musician [10pts]
- Standard Bearer [25pts]
- Standard of Discipline [15pts]
Bunker... Glade Guard [210pts] - Asrai Longbow
- 15x Glade Guard [180pts]
- Musician [10pts]
- Standard Bearer [20pts]
- Banner of Eternal Flame [10pts]
To strip off regenerate, 15 GG to "secure" getting a wound in on a T5+ gribbly at long range. Glade Guard [245pts] - Asrai Longbow
- 15x Glade Guard [225pts]
- 15x Trueflight Arrows [45pts]
- Musician [10pts]
- Standard Bearer [10pts]
Taking out skirmishers and other pesky targets. 15 shots = 10 hits = 5 wounds vs. T3 on average. Standard for Blood and Glory scenario. + Special [922pts] +Deepwood Scouts [240pts] - Asrai Longbow
- 15x Deepwood Scouts [240pts]
- 15x Hagbane Tips [45pts]
Dealing damage, 1 WM or 1 MI /round with good probability. Wardancers [105pts] - Two Hand Weapons
- 7x Wardancer [105pts]
Keep my "backyard" clean/supporting EG with flank attacks. Warhawk Riders [145pts] - Asrai Longbow
- Asrai Spear
- 3x Warhawk Riders [135pts]
- Wind Rider [10pts]
Hunt WM, chaff and weakened units. Wild Riders [216pts] - Asrai Spear
- Light Armour
- 7x Wild Riders [196pts]
- 7x Shields [14pts]
- Champion [10pts]
- Standard Bearer [10pts]
What wild riders do...mainly having standards for extra combat res and Blood and Glory scenario. Wild Riders [216pts] - Asrai Spear
- Light Armour
- 7x Wild Riders [196pts]
- 7x Shields [14pts]
- Champion [10pts]
- Standard Bearer [10pts]
+ Rare [500pts] +Great Eagle [50pts] Redirect and feast on weak prey.Great Eagle [50pts] Waywatchers [200pts] - Asrai Longbow
- Two Hand Weapons
- 10x Waywatchers [200pts]
Kill stuff. Waywatchers [200pts] - Asrai Longbow
- Two Hand Weapons
- 10x Waywatchers [200pts]
++ Total: [3,021pts] ++
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Post by sedge on Jan 25, 2022 11:32:41 GMT
Possible stuff to trim: - Spellweaver's Book of Ashur - it's crazy expensive for what it does. You could replace it with a Dispel Scroll, or Talisman of Preservation.
- Spellsinger's Power Stone - or drop them to Level 1, as Wyssan's is probably all you're going to get off. If you did that and kept the Power Stone, you should still be able to cast it in that vital round of combat.
- Eternal Guard - drop 1-2 models. You'll have a round 25 models with your characters in here.
- Trueflight Glade Guard - drop the standard bearer.
- Wardancers - lose a model or two.
- Warhawk Riders - drop the champion.
- Wild Riders - drop the champions.
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Buxe
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Posts: 135
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Post by Buxe on Jan 25, 2022 20:33:58 GMT
Thanks for the suggestions! I guess I'll have to approach this from the direction of "what hurts less". - I like the Wardancers to be 7 wide to maximise damage output
- The champ in the Warhawks is there to accept annoying challenges should the BSB join the unit
- Assuming the Wild Rider standard bearers live by the motto "live fast, die young", I'd like to keep the standard in the GG for Blood and Glory
- I kind of like the idea of +6 to cast spells in woods, but I haven't used it a game yet. Is it not as good as I imagine?
- Lore of beasts has some nice spells (the buffs, the hex + the spear) but they all have a relatively high casting value. Wyssan's will be the main spell this guy shall cast, but I fancy the idea of a first-turn-surprise Amber Spear or Savage Beast on the BSB...
- Dropping the champions in the Wild Riders reduces damage output by 1 attack and the option to accept/issue challenges - potential situational and therefor ok?
- The EG can be reduced by 2 to free up 24 points. Downside is a bit smaller buffer before loosing attacks (in woods), but probably manageable.
Guess I'll reduce the EG by 2 then!
What is the opinion on following options for the BSB: - Enchanted Shield [5pts] & Opal Amulet [15pts] vs. - Charmed Shield [5pts] & Opal Amulet [15pts] vs. - Shield [2pts] & Dragonhelm [10pts]
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Post by Horace on Jan 25, 2022 21:18:07 GMT
I like the list. I know nothing about playing Woodies atm, but that list is roughly the army I will be building "next". Got about half of it together so far
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Post by sedge on Jan 26, 2022 14:17:30 GMT
Just a note, technically characters cannot join flying units. It's a stupid rule, and your opponent(s) may agree to allow it, but otherwise you have to assume the Eagle Captain is flying solo.
In your list as-is, you've paid 2 points for the Glade Captain to have a shield, but he has an Enchanted Shield already.
On his magic items, I've never much liked the Charmed Shield as it's just as likely to be wasted against a bow shot than saving you from a cannonball or giant rock to the face. But in this case, he is the ideal target for those kind of warmachines, so it's worth taking.
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Buxe
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Posts: 135
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Post by Buxe on Jan 27, 2022 10:30:38 GMT
Just found the rule concerning characters joining flying units...well, that's a small disappointment. But shouldn't have too much effect. The unit is too small to grant Look out, Sir! anyways. Biggest downside is probably not being able to buff both with one spell.
Missed the 2pts shield hidden in there - very good spotting! Unfortunately the Shield of Ptolos is 5pts too expensive to be combined with the HoDA. Guess I'll stick with Enchanted Shield [5pts] & Opal Amulet [15pts], and use good placement to mitigate risk of those cannons.
Has anyone got experience with Book of Azur with Wood Elves? On paper it looks good, but well, that's on paper...
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Post by Crazy_Dokta on Jan 27, 2022 11:26:22 GMT
Ashur book is too expensive for what it does. For 3k you may take 2 lv4 lords (I would like High+Shadow, but since you want lore of beast - try this, maybe add also lv2 for whole lore). About bsb - HODA is all he need (+maybe Charmed shield or something like that). Don't pay many points on him. Or on all characters' item allowance. Also it's better to keep him in units (he isn't a Tzeenchy-Tanky 5T 3ward Dude, sadly ), so maybe keep him in wild riders? And some simple cheap heroes on eagles if you wish them. For heroes on eagles - try to keep them as cheap as possible (something like O&G gobbo-hero on wolf - 5-10pts (dragongem and/or warrior bane sword;armor+spear) is ok). I'd like eagles alone, without heroes, though. What's about Moonstone? (Or what's it name - teleport in woods?) It's awesome in game therms and in theme as well. What's about mounted wizards lords? Do you have Thorn sisters for it? Think about this. Also: you've seen WE tactic guide and some lists, right?
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Buxe
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Posts: 135
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Post by Buxe on Jan 27, 2022 12:20:00 GMT
I like to have 3+ "standard" all-round lists with different play style for all of my armies, so that I can randomly pick one right before setting up the game. The club I played at before the game lost GW support, most gamers would tailor their army lists for each game. By having a set of standard lists with different play style I could make it more difficult for my opponent to tailor his list. As I'm new to Wood Elves I'm still working on designing 3-4 different viable lists - this is the first. I am also working on a build with the Moonstone, but I believe the Moonstone needs the Acorn of the Ages to work properly, so that would be a completely different build centred around a large unit of Deepwood Scouts. I'll post it later. I'm also working on lists with Sisters and mounted Wizards - all to come. But I'll see if I can make two Spellweavers work in this list. P.S. I've read all the tactics
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Post by Crazy_Dokta on Jan 27, 2022 13:22:46 GMT
Which armies are you playing against? There are any restrictions (tournament/friendly-beerly-beardly game)? (I'll think about some diffirrent ones and text here some later)
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Buxe
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Posts: 135
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Post by Buxe on Jan 27, 2022 18:37:30 GMT
Oh, that's quite a mix.
Beastmen Chaos Daemons Dark Elves Dwarfs High Elves Lizardmen Ogre Kingdoms Orcs & Goblins Skaven Vampire Counts Warriors of Chaos
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Buxe
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Posts: 135
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Post by Buxe on Jan 28, 2022 10:50:00 GMT
For 3k you may take 2 lv4 lords (I would like High+Shadow, but since you want lore of beast - try this, maybe add also lv2 for whole lore). I've given 2 lord-level wizards some thought. And I'm not really convinced. On average I will have 7 power dice available. With 7 dice I can cast either 1 "medium" level and 2 "low" level spells or 2 "medium" level spells - so 2-3 spells per magic phase on average. Assuming I manage to cast the spells, 1 (2 if I'm unlucky) will be banned. So 1, maybe 2, spells will be successfully cast. Is this good use of >500pts? True, I'll have a wider range of spells to choose from, and if I roll 12 power dice it's all cool, but is it justified? With only the Channelling Staff and Lore of Death, Wood Elves don't have any means to greatly improve the power dice pool. I don't see how Wood Elves can fully use the potential of two lord level wizards in one list.
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Post by Crazy_Dokta on Jan 28, 2022 18:54:25 GMT
It's all about versality and "psychology pressure". If it's a one game against one concrete army, so you are right, we'll take the most needed available lore and that's ok. If it's a friendly game (and/or with some homebrew rules) - well, that's a whole other thing. If we at tourney against different armies we want flexibility. So we'll take the most versality lore or mix of them (to compensate our weakness/to enchance our strenghts) to be able effective against all of them (the same with all units/items). Two mage lords (or some hero mages) are not only mean "more agressive" but also "more defense". More chances to dispel/more targets to our opponent at least. Effectiveness is not only "how many wounds it caused" but also "how many forces (units/maneuvres/spells/turnes) your opponent wasted to prevent it/kill it". Let your opponents to think about your magic phase (and your actions as a whole) - "what to dispel, what is ok, what to dispel at all cost?" - maybe he'll be confused/tangled (and you win). About arcane items and amount of power dices - you forgot about Power scroll (halved casting for non-boosted spell)! Sometimes it's awesome. Lore of Dark with Power of darkness (signature) adds some power dices too. Also don't forget army bonus +1 to all cast if in a forest. About list. I guess 2 mages is minimum. So, 2lords+1hero and/or Thorn sisters. Dispel scroll is mandatory, no doupts. Tal of Preserv, Moonstone, Obsidian talisman (or Lichbone banner to unit he is with) for them. Mounted on horse or on foot as you wish, but bunkered anyway (so, drop the eagle mage). Take different Fire arrows (Moonfire/Starfire) on heroes vs regeneration instead Flame banner. Drop Eternal guard (take another archers or Glade riders), Beast lore (too situative as a whole, it's better to take guaranteed Anraheer curse from sisters if you want it) and maybe Deep scouts (or split them in two units ×7-8?). Add Sisters (they are much better than that hero mage on eagle and cost the same). Take one horse mage if you still want to buff the riders with Wyssan (or take Dark lore). 90pts! P.S. Sorry, I'm not nagging you. Play as you wish and have fun!
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Buxe
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Posts: 135
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Post by Buxe on Jan 28, 2022 21:38:37 GMT
P.S. Sorry, I'm not nagging you. No worries! The tread is all about exchanging ideas and arguments pro and contra different unit choices.
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Buxe
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Posts: 135
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Post by Buxe on Jan 30, 2022 19:57:26 GMT
OK, so I made some changes based on the comments. Well, just small changes, as I didn't want to change the play-style of the list. + Lords [255pts] +Spellweaver [255pts] - Wizard Level 4 [35pts], Lore of Life
- Dispel Scroll [25pts]
- Shrieking Blade [10pts]
Changed the Book of Ashur for Dispel Scroll, as general opinion was the Book doesn't cut it. Left out ToP, as I'm hoping regeneration will save the day (I know the danger of flaming attacks). Shrieking Blade to give the bunker fear. Could be helpful, if only to prevent making fear tests of my own.+ Heroes [507pts] +Glade Captain [207pts] - Battle Standard [25pts]
- Light Armor
- Asrai Longbow
- Asrai Spear [2pts]
- Arcane Bodkins [5pts]
- Great Eagle [50pts]
- Hail of Doom Arrow [30pts]
- Opal Amulet [15pts]
UnchangedSpellsinger [190pts] - Wizard Level 2 [35pts], Lore of Beasts
- Asrai Longbow [5pts]
- Great Eagle [50pts]
- Power Stone [20pts]
Unchanged, mage and BSB cannot join Warhawks, but can hide behind them for hard cover or meat shield vs. cannonballs if needed.Waystalker [110pts]: Unchanged+ Core [800pts] +Eternal Guard [345pts]: - 25x Eternal Guard [300pts]
- 25x Shields [25pts]
- Light Armour
- Asrai Spear
- Champion [10pts]
- Musician [10pts]
- Standard Bearer [25pts]
- Standard of Discipline [15pts]
Surprisingly unchanged
Glade Guard [210pts] - 15x Glade Guard [180pts]
- Asrai Longbow
- Musician [10pts]
- Standard Bearer [20pts]
- Banner of Eternal Flame [10pts]
Unchanged Glade Guard [245pts] - 15x Glade Guard [225pts]
- Asrai Longbow
- 15x Trueflight Arrows [45pts]
- Musician [10pts]
- Standard Bearer [10pts]
Unchanged+ Special [938pts] +Deepwood Scouts [128pts] - 8x Deepwood Scouts [128pts]
- Asrai Longbow
- 8x Hagbane Tips [24pts]
Deepwood Scouts [128pts] - 8x Deepwood Scouts [128pts]
- Asrai Longbow
- 8x Hagbane Tips [24pts]
Split the 15 man unit up into two 8 man unitsWardancers [105pts] - 7x Wardancer [105pts]
- Two Hand Weapons
UnchangedWarhawk Riders [145pts] - 3x Warhawk Riders [135pts]
- Asrai Longbow
- Asrai Spear
- Wind Rider [10pts]
UnchangedWild Riders [216pts] - 7x Wild Riders [196pts]
- Light Armour
- Asrai Spear
- 7x Shields [14pts]
- Champion [10pts]
- Standard Bearer [10pts]
Wild Riders [216pts] - 7x Wild Riders [196pts]
- Light Armour
- Asrai Spear
- 7x Shields [14pts]
- Champion [10pts]
- Standard Bearer [10pts]
Both Wild Rider units unchanged+ Rare [500pts] +Great Eagle [50pts] Great Eagle [50pts] Waywatchers [200pts] - 10x Waywatchers [200pts]
- Asrai Longbow
- Two Hand Weapons
Waywatchers [200pts] - 10x Waywatchers [200pts]
- Asrai Longbow
- Two Hand Weapons
All rare choices unchanged.++ Total: [3,000pts] ++
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Buxe
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Posts: 135
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Post by Buxe on Jan 30, 2022 22:05:29 GMT
Next up, first iteration of my second Wood Elf list: Edit notes: green colour = new/updated, strikethrough = removed/old + Lords [325pts] +Spellweaver [325pts] - Wizard Level 4 [35pts], High Magic
- Asrai Longbow [5pts]
- Acorns of the Ages [100pts]
Goes into DS bunker+ Heroes [367 441pts] +Glade Captain [ 207169pts] Light Armor
- Asrai Longbow
- Shield [2pts]
- Asrai Spear [2pts]
- Battle Standard [25pts]
- Arcane Bodkins [5pts]
- Elven Steed [10pts]
- Armour of Destiny [50pts]
Great Eagle [50pts]
Hail of Doom Arrow [30pts]Enchanted Shield [5pts]Opal Amulet [15pts]
Does what a mobile BSB does, hides behind Warhawk for hard cover or meat-shield if needed joins the Wild Riders
Glade Captain [112pts]
- Light Armor
- Asrai Longbow
- Great Weapon [4pts]
- Hagbane Tips [3pts]
- Hail of Doom Arrow [30pts]
Goes into DS bunker, leaving unit if he wants to target different unit with HoDA.
Spellsinger [160pts] - Wizard Level 2 [35pts], Lore of Shadow
- Asrai Longbow [5pts]
- Moonstone of the Hidden Ways [40pts]
Goes into DS bunker+ Core [940pts] +Glade Guard [210pts] - 15x Glade Guard [180pts]
- Asrai Longbow
- Musician [10pts]
- Standard Bearer [20pts]
- Banner of Eternal Flame [10pts]
To strip off regenerate, 15 GG to "secure" getting a wound in on a T5+ gribbly at long range.Glade Guard [245pts] - 15x Glade Guard [225pts]
- Asrai Longbow
- 15x Trueflight Arrows [45pts]
- Musician [10pts]
- Standard Bearer [10pts]
Taking out skirmishers and other pesky targets. 15 shots = 10 hits = 5 wounds vs. T3 on average. Standard for Blood and Glory scenario.Glade Guard [245pts] - 15x Glade Guard [225pts]
- Asrai Longbow
- 15x Hagbane Tips [45pts]
- Musician [10pts]
- Standard Bearer [10pts]
Dealing damage, 1 WM or 1 MI /round with good probability. Standard for Blood and Glory scenario.Glade Riders [120pts] - 5x Glade Riders [110pts]
- Asrai Longbow
- Asrai Spear
- 5x Trueflight Arrows [15pts]
- Musician [10pts]
Causing havoc behind enemy lines, hunting WM and similar prey. Two units due to unpredictable ambush rule.Glade Riders [120pts] - 5x Glade Riders [110pts]
- Asrai Longbow
- Asrai Spear
- 5x Trueflight Arrows [15pts]
- Musician [10pts]
+ Special [868 788pts] +Deepwood Scouts [ 372 420 308pts] 22x 25x 18x Deepwood Scouts [352 400 288pts]- Asrai Longbow
22x 25x 18x Hagbane Tips [66 75 54pts]- Champion [10pts]
- Standard Bearer [10pts]
Going from wood to wood, pumping targets full with arrows. Unit size reduced to fit unit + characters into a citadel wood. 7x3 formation.Deepwood Scouts [112pts]
- 7x Deepwood Scouts [112pts]
- Asrai Longbow
- 7x Hagbane Tips [21pts]
Second unit made up of members removed from the big unit.Warhawk Riders [ 145 190pts] 3x 4x Warhawk Riders [135 180pts]- Asrai Longbow
- Asrai Spear
- Wind Rider [10pts]
Hunt WM, chaff and weakened units.Warhawk Riders [145pts]
- 3x Warhawk Riders [135pts]
- Asrai Longbow
- Asrai Spear
- Wind Rider [10pts]
Hunt WM, chaff and weakened units.Wild Riders [ 206 178pts] 7x 6x Wild Riders [196 168pts]- Light Armour
- Asrai Spear
7x 6x Shields [14 12pts]
- Standard Bearer [10pts]
What wild riders do...mainly having standard for extra combat res and Blood and Glory scenario.+ Rare [500pts] +Great Eagle [50pts] Redirect and feast on weak prey.Great Eagle [50pts] Waywatchers [200pts] - 10x Waywatchers [200pts]
- Asrai Longbow
- Two Hand Weapons
Kill stuffWaywatchers [200pts] - 10x Waywatchers [200pts]
- Asrai Longbow
- Two Hand Weapons
++ Total: [3,000 2,994pts] ++That's 96 shots/round, bumped to 106 shots when the GR arrive. Plus HoDA. Obviously the idea is to avoid CC until enemy units are ravaged enough to be mopped up by Warhawks and Wild Riders. Main gimmick being the Deepwood Scouts going from wood to wood, dancing around the enemy. What worries me a bit is the lack of arcane items due to wizards carrying Across and Moonstone. Edit: Wasn't happy with the BSB, so had to do some changes. Still thinking about putting the BSB on the foot slogging Captain, so that the opponent has to take out the big DS unit with its characters in order to win Blood and Glory.
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