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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Sept 6, 2017 15:46:57 GMT
I have noticed that Fear and Terror are among the rules haunted by the ghosts of editions past.
BRB p. 69: "At the start of each Close Combat round, a unit that is in base contact with one or more enemy models that cause Fear must take a Leadership test, before any blows are struck."
So, as long as a single model of the unit (character or not)is in base contact with the Fear-causing model, all models of that unit (character or not) take the test - with the obvious exception of those models that are immune to Fear.
Note that this works both ways. If both units are in base contact with an enemy model causing Fear, both units will have to take the test.
Does that answer your last question?
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Post by mottdon on Sept 7, 2017 13:42:33 GMT
Yes, that does. Thank you for clarifying, Fidelis.
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Post by knoffles on May 2, 2018 8:16:36 GMT
As a break from the Beastmen I’ve lined up a game with my wood elves in a couple of weeks. Not sure what my opponent will bring as like most of us, he has a number of armies (and I last played him back in 2015). As normal I’ve been list tinkering again and at present am favouring a more melee orientated list (if only to try out some different units). As such there are some things that aren’t optimised. There are also a number of characters as I have in my head that heroes are bringing (and in some cases leading) their own war bands to answer the call to defend their lands.
Highweaver (General) - level 4, high magic, ToP, dispelling scroll - 290pts
Glade Captain (bsb) - HODA, enchanted shield, starfire shafts - 139pts
Glade Captain - Great Stag, sword of anti-heroes, dragon helm, Po foolhardiness, shield - 187pts
Shadowdancer - Po Strength - 120pts
Waystalker - Bow of Loren - 110pts
24 Eternal Guard, FC, shields, standard of discipline - 333pts (More than likely the character bunker for mage, bsb and shadowdancer)
10 Glade Guard, standard, musician, hagbane Arrows, banner of eternal flame - 180pts
6 Treekin - 270pts
6 Wardancers - 90pts (These will likely support the treekin)
3 Warhawk riders - 135pts
10 Dryads, nymph - 120pts
10 Wildriders, FC, shields, banner if swiftness - 325pts
Now I know I’ve previously said I’m not convinced about the waystalker, but I couldn’t resist adding him back in. I am however, very tempted to drop him and some Wildriders to try and squeeze in a Treeman, as who doesn’t love a Treeman! I’ve also stuck with the Pot of str on the shadowdancer as I like the strength boost alpha strike over the defensive scales. I might also drop the nymph in order to add a cheap magic weapon to the bsb as our club members do like their ethereals and bar combat res, the Eternal guard would struggle with that. The captain on Great Stag is possibly a bit of an unneeded item but I’ve just finished painting him! (Again he could be sacrificed to add in a second waystalker or help fit in the Treeman)
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Post by mottdon on May 2, 2018 14:01:55 GMT
So playing a 2300 pt game?
Why the 10 Dryads? Are they acting as chaff? I'd be tempted to put their points into more Glade Guard, or Eternal Guard. That'd also meet your Core minimum and you could put around half of those points toward a Treeman.
Also, seems like you plan on using the Shadowdancer as a bodyguard for the Caster and BSB. I'd think that you could put her points toward the Treeman and get more use out of him. You could also take off 2 Wild Riders and still have a unit that is 5-wide, 2 Ranks deep. So, to sum it up, if you drop the Dryads, the Shadowdancer, 2 Wildriders, and the Starfire Shafts on your BSB, you could exchange them for a Treeman, 6 Eternal Guard (rounding you to 30). How does that sound?
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Post by knoffles on May 2, 2018 17:33:59 GMT
If it’s 2300pts it means I missed or mistyped something major on the train, flicking between drop box and safari (with my busted phone screen). It should have been 2500 😀. Excuses over... Ahhhh probably left out 10 waywatchers at 200pts!
Dryads were taken as a cheap way to round out my core (if I wrote prices correctly it should be about 630pts), act as chaff and because of the more melee orientation.
However advice taken on board. I’m going to have to tinker some more to fit in the Treeman. Any excuse really for more list building 😉
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Post by strutsagget on May 2, 2018 17:49:08 GMT
Looks fun to play no matter what
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Post by knoffles on May 2, 2018 21:24:34 GMT
I dropped the shadowdancer and a chunk of the wildriders and now have the treeman. I’m now considering dropping the captain on Great Stag or replacing his mount with an eagle as I think it will have more utility. Decisions decisions. I do have a sneaky feeling I'm going to be facing Vampire Counts with the list.
Highweaver (General) - level 4, high magic, ToP, dispel scroll - 290pts
Glade Captain (bsb) - HODA, enchanted shield, biting blade - 145pts
Glade Captain - Great Stag, sword of anti-heroes, dragon helm, Po foolhardiness, shield - 187pts
Waystalker - Bow of Loren - 110pts
24 Eternal Guard, FC, shields, standard of discipline - 333pts
10 Glade Guard, standard, musician, hagbane Arrows, banner of eternal flame - 180pts
6 Treekin - 270pts
6 Wardancers - 90pts (These will likely support the treekin)
3 Warhawk riders - 135pts
10 Dryads, nymph - 120pts
6 Wildriders, FC, shields, banner if swiftness - 213pts
10 Waywatchers - 200pts
Treeman - 225pts
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Post by mottdon on May 3, 2018 13:22:02 GMT
Hmmm. Normally, I'd urge you to stick with the Glade Captain on Stag, but if you're going to be facing VC, shock cav. aren't going to do much. The best you can do with them is clear chaff, and Wild Riders are WAAAY too squishy to be stuck in grinding combats. Maybe you can add onto your Dryads (their 2 attacks with Hatred would come in handy versus Zombies and Skeletons) by saving points from your Captain on Stag? Or shoot, by dropping the Captain on Stag, one Wildrider, and the Biting Blade, then you could add another Treeman!
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Post by knoffles on May 3, 2018 15:45:35 GMT
Lol I only own one Treeman and I’m not positive it’s VC. If it is, there is a strong chance of a double terrorgiest (so my ‘sources’ have informed me this week). I also realised last time I faced him I took an almost all melee list in a shooting army (dwarves) and I’m doing it again. To be honest if I weren’t taking WE’s I would be taking a miner / ranger / longbeard ambush/vanguard list for giggles. Damn now there’s a thought.
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Post by mottdon on May 3, 2018 16:54:32 GMT
Lol, I just faced a VC army a few weeks ago in our big 5K game. He wound up taking 2 Terrorgheists, 3 Mortis Engines, and 6 casters, all one-dice spamming their Sig spell. I couldn't do anything to whittle down his Grave Guard block, which had his Blender Lord general, a backup Vampire Lord, and his Wright King BSB. I think I killed off 2 of the Mortis Engines and when they blew up, he just raised any losses right back. Oh - and Thorogrim whiffed against his Blender Lord. Wound up taking 4 wounds in the first round and got killed in the next turn. I couldn't scratch that unit, though I did manage to kill his Wright King BSB. Lol. In the end, I killed both Terrorgheists, 2 Mortis Engines, 3 Vargheists and tons of chaff units
My Hammerers did very well though. I think Thorogrim would've been much more of a heavy-hitter in with them. There were just simply too many models on the board to simply avoid them. My two 10-man units of Quarrellers did suprisingly well! They managed to kill off several units of Dire Wolves, put several wounds on a Terrorgheist, and kill off his 3 Vargheists in Close Combat, while only losing 3 in return! Not a bad showing! My Irondrakes did amazing well too, though I wish I had them more centrally placed from deployment. They ruled the weaker flank, but simply couldn't get to enough to have a major impact on the game. Killed off a Mortis Engine though!
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Post by knoffles on Aug 27, 2018 21:34:40 GMT
Soooo it’s been a while since my last list post.
I’m looking to run the new club warhammer competition and this year it might be a brawler bash style (depending on number of peeps who sign up). I’ll be slightly handicapped vs some of the entrants as semi-finalists will get 25% lord’s/heroes allowance vs 50% for everyone else. This means I’m unlikely to use Beastmen as I’d struggle to get a kitted out Doombull and another lord/bsb with that restriction.
So I’m left with a few options: High elves, Bret’s, Dwarves and Wood Elves. High Elves i don’t fancy at present, my Bret’s are only half built, let only painted, dwarves are my safety option as I know them well (so are definitely on the cards) but I am fancying the wood elves.
As such I’ve been tinkering again.
Spellweaver - lvl 4 - lore of shadow, earthing rod, moonstone of the hidden ways - 285pts
Glade Captain - starfire shafts - great eagle, charmed shield, sword of striking, HODA - 179pts
21 glade guard - FC - trueflight Arrows - 345pts
10 Dryads - 110pts
10 Glade guard - standard - banner of eternal flame - hagbane Arrows - 180pts
5 Sisters of the Thorn - 130pts
6 Treekin - Elder - 280pts
10 Deepwood Scouts - hagbane Arrows - 160pts
6 Wardancers - 90pts
3 Warhawks - 135pts
6 Wildriders - Champion - 178pts
6 Wildriders - Champion - 178pts
1 Great Eagle - 50pts
10 Waywatchers - 200pts
I’ve tried to go with an MSU list with minimal characters as this is a polar opposite of the Beastmen lists I’ve been playing so will get me used to a different style of play.
The one large unit of archers will have the spellweaver in it and the moonstone should allow them to jump around. I’ve taken the earthing rod over a dispel scroll as the spells could be fairly critical to the list (and I keep having really bad experiences with miscasts!). I’m not totally convinced on this and still tempted to drop the moonstone, give her a 4++ Ward and steed and chuck her in the sisters. Part of this is also because I figure the moonstone is more effective with a combat unit (such as rangers). Still she could always join the treekin and teleport them!). Again I’m not convinced with the sisters but figure they are worth it just for the curse spell. The eagle is there purely to try and ensure the Wildriders get to charge and I have two units of them for redundancy.
Like my previous lists, half of it is taken because I love the models (yes I love the dryads and they are chaff and with magical attacks and hatred and aren’t as bad as a lot of people think) and the other half because I think it will be effective on the table
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Aug 28, 2018 11:59:20 GMT
I see that various units have the same enchanted arrows. Enchnated arows are enchanted items, and while the AB contains the exemption that they "do not prevent a model from having a second enchanted item," it does not contain an exemption to the "unique" rule applying to all magic items (BRB p. 500): "you can only have one of each in your army unless otherwise stated in the magic item's rules."
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Post by knoffles on Aug 28, 2018 15:51:55 GMT
I see that various units have the same enchanted arrows. Enchnated arows are enchanted items, and while the AB contains the exemption that they "do not prevent a model from having a second enchanted item," it does not contain an exemption to the "unique" rule applying to all magic items (BRB p. 500): "you can only have one of each in your army unless otherwise stated in the magic item's rules." I did always wonder as I’ve seen a lot of discussions around this. Our club (and the competition) allows duplicate arrow types, so effectively it’s a house rule.
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Post by mottdon on Aug 28, 2018 16:38:49 GMT
Pretty much everyone does, so you're fine with duplicate arrows. (In fact, I've never seen or played anyone who argued against this.)
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Post by mottdon on Aug 28, 2018 16:46:00 GMT
As far as your list, it looks good and worth a go! I think that the Moonstone might be a bit of a waste, after your first game. Other's will quickly catch onto what it can do, and will simply camp one model out in each "portable" forest, blocking you from using the stone. I think that it's more of an item to take to random one-off games. In campaigns like this, it can wind up being useless, and it simply costs too much for a throw-away item.
Also, I don't know how effective it'd be on your Spellcaster, seeing as I've only ever used it on a Glade Captain (usually in with a unit of Wildwood Rangers), but it might be tricky seeing as how you could find her suddenly stranded and very vulnerable with no saves of any kind.
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