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Post by gjnoronh on Jul 10, 2017 19:40:45 GMT
I like the harpy harness idea. Or put him on a very small dragon type creature (like a warmaster one) that is clearly so overburdened it can't attack.
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Post by frozenfood on Jul 11, 2017 9:05:45 GMT
Santa mino with a sleigh pulled by harpies?
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Post by knoffles on Jul 22, 2017 6:25:13 GMT
I've been playing around with some other Doombull builds (still looking at taking 2) and would love to get your thoughts.
I've also just picked up some centigor cheap off ebay. Has anyone used these before and what are your thoughts?
Original Builds
Doombull - Gold Sigil Sword, Ramhorn Helm, Dragonbane Gem, Arabyan Carpet, Gnarled Hide, HA, Shield - 353pts.
This is my flying bull. He is there to prey on chaff to build up attacks and if possible with be hitting low strength hordes with his: 1+ save, 2++ vs fire. 6 * i10 attacks . Additional attacks on armour saves. Can fly.
Doombull - Sword of Swift Slaying, Dragonhelm, Dawnstone, Other Tricksters Shard, Uncanny Senses, HA, Shield - 338pts
This bull will follow with my units to provide additional support/assassination with his: 3+ save rerollable, 2++ vs fire. 6 * i6 ASF attacks. NME reroll ward saves.
Alternative Builds - 1
Doombull - Sword of Swift Slaying, Dragonhelm, Arabyan Carpet, Uncanny Senses, HA, Shield, Luckstone - 353pts.
Another take on the flying bull: 3+ save - one time rerollable, 2++ vs fire. 6 * i6 ASF attacks. Can Fly.
Doombull - Axes of Khorgor, Ramhorn Helm, Dawnstone, Gnarled Hide, Shadowhide, HA.
Another foot slogger tasked with support. He can tie up/destroy smaller units of low str troops with his: 2+ rerollable save, 7 rerollable attacks. Additional attacks on armour save. Additional -1 to hit from shooting in cover.
Alternative Builds - 2
Doombull - Sword of Striking, Dragonhelm, Arabyan Carpet, Gouge-Tusks, HA, Shield - 353pts.
Final take on the flying bull. Aimed at taking out heavier armed opponents with his: 3+ save, 2++ vs fire. 6 * attacks at +1 to hit and -4 armour save. Can Fly.
Doombull - Sword of Swift Slaying, Ramhorn Helm, Dawnstone, Other Tricksters Shard, Gnarled Hide, Shadow Hide, HA, Shield.
This is the 'classic Doombull build. 1+ rerollable save, 6 * ASF attacks. Additional attacks on armour save. Additional -1 to hit from shooting in cover. Ok the last bit isn't normally in the build but as he is also running solo this should help his survivability a bit.
I did consider swopping the swords around on these guys and Gouge tusks for Uncanny senses. I like the i6 with the ASF sword as it allows rerolls against many of the elite elves.
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Post by frozenfood on Jul 22, 2017 7:23:36 GMT
I love your orignal flying bull, defensive and can pack a punch. The classic doombull means no gnarled hide on the bsb. Do you miss that sometimes?
Man...gonna take my beastmen out for a spin after next week's game
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Post by knoffles on Jul 22, 2017 8:32:09 GMT
I've never taken the 206 bsb and to date I've not regretted it. It maybe that he is almost always on the corner of a horde so often not in combat. It's odd as I will often prioritise killing an enemy bsb but to date he's not died in combat (if memory served correctly).
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Post by gjnoronh on Jul 22, 2017 20:10:37 GMT
My ram horn bull gets the dawn stone and no carpet and goes with a gorebull with 4+ ward in the front rank of a unit of ungors with full command. Front rank is very hard to scratch and provides some missile fire protection particularly searing doom.
My flybull gets the carpet and a 4+ ward if I can. He is going to be a cannon target. Maybe a charmed shield too.
It may be nice to get the pick of targets with a flying ram bull but you lose the rerolls and you eat a lot of cannon balls flying like that.
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Post by grandmasterwang on Aug 5, 2017 9:54:47 GMT
Could also model him to be holding onto some harpies or something; using them to "fly" around himself. Could even build him some kind of harness with 4 leads and have a harpy on each corner of the base carrying him around by those leads! Or have him holding on to a giant balloon! Or a giant pogo stick that "counts as" flying! Pogobull ftw!
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Post by grandmasterwang on Aug 5, 2017 10:00:18 GMT
I've been playing around with some other Doombull builds (still looking at taking 2) and would love to get your thoughts. I've also just picked up some centigor cheap off ebay. Has anyone used these before and what are your thoughts? Original BuildsDoombull - Gold Sigil Sword, Ramhorn Helm, Dragonbane Gem, Arabyan Carpet, Gnarled Hide, HA, Shield - 353pts. This is my flying bull. He is there to prey on chaff to build up attacks and if possible with be hitting low strength hordes with his: 1+ save, 2++ vs fire. 6 * i10 attacks . Additional attacks on armour saves. Can fly. Doombull - Sword of Swift Slaying, Dragonhelm, Dawnstone, Other Tricksters Shard, Uncanny Senses, HA, Shield - 338pts This bull will follow with my units to provide additional support/assassination with his: 3+ save rerollable, 2++ vs fire. 6 * i6 ASF attacks. NME reroll ward saves. Alternative Builds - 1
Doombull - Sword of Swift Slaying, Dragonhelm, Arabyan Carpet, Uncanny Senses, HA, Shield, Luckstone - 353pts. Another take on the flying bull: 3+ save - one time rerollable, 2++ vs fire. 6 * i6 ASF attacks. Can Fly. Doombull - Axes of Khorgor, Ramhorn Helm, Dawnstone, Gnarled Hide, Shadowhide, HA. Another foot slogger tasked with support. He can tie up/destroy smaller units of low str troops with his: 2+ rerollable save, 7 rerollable attacks. Additional attacks on armour save. Additional -1 to hit from shooting in cover. Alternative Builds - 2Doombull - Sword of Striking, Dragonhelm, Arabyan Carpet, Gouge-Tusks, HA, Shield - 353pts. Final take on the flying bull. Aimed at taking out heavier armed opponents with his: 3+ save, 2++ vs fire. 6 * attacks at +1 to hit and -4 armour save. Can Fly. Doombull - Sword of Swift Slaying, Ramhorn Helm, Dawnstone, Other Tricksters Shard, Gnarled Hide, Shadow Hide, HA, Shield. This is the 'classic Doombull build. 1+ rerollable save, 6 * ASF attacks. Additional attacks on armour save. Additional -1 to hit from shooting in cover. Ok the last bit isn't normally in the build but as he is also running solo this should help his survivability a bit. I did consider swopping the swords around on these guys and Gouge tusks for Uncanny senses. I like the i6 with the ASF sword as it allows rerolls against many of the elite elves. Centigors are not good for the points unfortunately. Ok on offense, terrible on defence. As beasts have little shooting and Centigors are already expensive the throwing axe option isn't actually a bad option for the % extra it costs for them. With my gaming group, as a buff they come with Stubborn as standard and can choose a second drunken option. See if your mates/gaming partners/opponents will allow this as it makes them a significantly better option and they still die easy.
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Post by knoffles on Aug 6, 2017 10:49:32 GMT
Now feeling paranoid about cannons (and realising that I don't have a distraction ghorgon) I've chopped and changed the list and instead removed a doombull and chucked in a beastlord. Note he doesn't have the Crown of Command as I can't have that item + standard of discipline as part of the comp pack, so went for the higher leadership item instead (there is more to the restriction than those items but they are the bits that matter here).
So the questions for your opinion are:
1) Do I remove the smaller Gor unit and bump up the larger unit + add ungor raiders? 2) Do I go shadow or beasts on the level 1? (Again comp restrictions impact meaning a max magic level of 5 between magic users e.g. Level 4 + level 1). 3) Do I forgo putting the beastlord in the Bestigors and instead put him in the Gor unit to give them a really hard hitter (which means the bestigor get the flaming banner instead).
oh and I might have said it before but the below is more or less the extent of my Beastmen (bar another 5 harpies and 2 ghorgans, though I do have a chimera I could use as a jabberslythe) so I have limited alternatives for units.
Doombull - sword of swift striking, flying carpet, charmed shield, dragonbane gem, HA, uncanny senses (+1 to iniative) - 242pts So this guy is still my flying threat and has traded the ramhorn build for some cannon protection and more offence. The extra initiative should ensure he maintains rerolls vs elves.
Great Bray Shaman - fencers blades, jagged dagger, potion of foolhardiness, talisman of Preservation, Lore of beasts - 330pts Tooled up as a combat Mage. He will go in the unit of Gor where the banner will give him a default Str of 5 to go with his base 3 attacks and WS 10. He will be hoping for savage beast spell but it isn't essential. The dagger will allow him to generate additional magic dice with each kill made.
Wargor - bsb, beastbanner, HA, Shield - 191pts Basic bsb build. Goes in the horde of Gor.
Beastlord - Ogre blade, ramhorn helm, dawnstone, potion of speed, gnarled hide, HA, shield - 254pts Based with the Bestigor to ensure an LD 10 bubble to maximise primal fury and other LD checks. Has the 1+ rerollable build except I dropped the Other tricksters shard and sword of striking to add in the ogre blade (and he doesnt really need the SoS due to the primal fury). As I had a spare 5pts I gave him the PoS to give him boosted initiative in one turn.
Bray Shaman - additional hand weapon, dispel scroll, Lore of Shadow - 102pts He will likely go in the smaller Gor unit (though may not). I may change him to beasts just for another wyssans but I like the miasma spell and it's low cast cost.
38 Gor - AHW, FC - 329pts As stated above, the bsb and GBS will probably go here. This is just a big in your face block of infantry.
14 Gor - AHW, FC - 137pts Potential Mage bunker or ambushing unit. Likely to run as a second line unit. I have considered dropping this and bumping the main Gor unit to 50 and then adding a few units of ungor raiders.
37 Bestigor - FC, standard of discipline - 489pts These are similar to GW dwarves and using those has taught me that you need a lot of them as even with T4 and HA, you will lose a lot of bodies especially with ASL.
2 * Tusgor Chariots (2 units @ 80pts each =) 160pts I love chariots and always try and include them in any army list. They are cheap and can be used as throw always units. They also always seem to cause opponents to concentrate resource on them rather than other threats.
2 * Razorgors (2 units @ 55pts each =) 110pts Compulsory chaff unit
5 Harpies - 55pts Again another chaff unit but can also fly.
Total 2499pts
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2017 17:47:17 GMT
1) Yes that's probably what I would do. I'm personally not a fan of beastmen ambush so losing the smaller Gor unit doesn't bother me. Although the potential mind games this option offers could be worth it. 2) Both lores are great and it's hard to pick just one. The question is would you rather have another Wyssans Wildform or access to Melkoths? It's nice to be able to cast Wyssans twice as one will most likely be dispelled, but being able to hex that criticial unit at a crucial time also cannot be overlooked. Personally I'm leaning more towards shadow. 3) I run the Beastlord in the Bestigor unit. True I have the standard of discipline but the other reason I do so is so the Bestigor have a little more punch against hordes. Bestigors want to be fighting the enemy elite/monsters as their S6 and essentially eternal hatred really makes their few attacks hurt hard. Knights, monsters, characters are their ideal targets. A smart opponent will know this and try and match them up against something like slaves. The beastlord helps grind through these cheap tarpits faster. That's just one mans opinion though. A case could be made for kitting him out with high S attacks and putting him in the Gor so the Gor can better deal with monsters, cavalry, etc... Your call.
I will say that I typically have: 3 units of razorgors, 4 units of ungor skirmishers, 2-3 units of hounds, and a unit or two of harpies. I bring the chaff. Often my opponent has placed his entire army before I'm even done placing my chaff and so I get to choose the matchups my Gors and Bestigors have.
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Post by knoffles on May 7, 2018 20:29:42 GMT
I'm having second thoughts about using wood elves in my next game and instead thinking of running a more frenzy style Beastmen list but not entirely as want some options! (I also thought i'd convert this into a continuous list build thread).
Characters
Khazbar the Magnificent (General) - lvl 4 Shadow, Sword of Anti-Heroes, Dispel Scroll, ToP - 335pts
Cattleclysm - Doombull - Sword of swift slaying, Ramhorn helm, Dawnstone, OTS, Gnarled Hide, HA, Sh - 348pts
Gorebull (BSB) - Sword of Striking, Dragonhelm, HA, Sh - 232pts
Units
48 Gor - FC, AHW - 409pts
Tuskgor Chariot - 80pts
Tuskgor Chariot - 80pts
Ungor Raiders - 30pts
Ungor Raiders - 30pts
6 Minotaurs - FC, AHW - 404pts
Ghorgon - 275pts
Ghorgon - 275pts
Total - 2498pts
As I said above, it's a bit fluffy with 2 ghorgons and a gorebull bsb. I did think about swopping the Gorebull for my normal Wargor bsb with the beast banner and then adding an additional minotaur (dropping the bloodkline to fit it in) or doing the above and dropping some minotaurs to fit in a couple of razorgors
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Post by mottdon on May 8, 2018 13:00:20 GMT
I say go with whatever will allow you to churn out the most attacks. If you ARE matched up against VC, then you'll need to be able to take them down in droves. I think your Doombull and Ghorgons should be able to handle anything of significant toughness. If he brings a big block of Grave Guard with a Blender Vamp, redirect the hell outta that unit and just don't engage it. It's the same concept as when you take 40 Hammerers with a Tank Lord on Shieldbearers. No point in engaging.
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Post by knoffles on Sept 19, 2018 8:41:35 GMT
List tinkering for my game vs GMW. Still not sure if I’d take beasts or dwarves yet. This is the next iteration of my Frenzy heavy list:
Characters
Beastlord - Razorgor Chariot, brass cleaver, armour of destiny, dragonbane gem, gouge tusks, shield - 393pts
Doombull - Ramhorn Helm, sword of swift striking, heavy armour, shield, dawn stone, uncanny senses, gnarled hide (or the ‘standard’) - 343pts
Wargor - BSB - HA, shield, beast banner - 191pts
Troops
29 Gor - Ahw, FC - 257pts 20 Gor - ahw, FC - 185pts 5 Ungor raiders - 30pts Tuskgor chariot - 80pts Tuskgor chariot - 80pts
5 Minotaurs, ahw, champion, blackened plate - 335pts 1 Razorgor - 55pts
1 Ghorgon - 275pts 1 Ghorgon - 375pts
Does this seem a reasonable list, especially if facing one of the previously posted wood elf lists? It has strengths but also some glaring weaknesses (yep I’ve completely ignored magic for one.).
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Post by grandmasterwang on Sept 20, 2018 7:41:04 GMT
List tinkering for my game vs GMW. Still not sure if I’d take beasts or dwarves yet. This is the next iteration of my Frenzy heavy list: Characters Beastlord - Razorgor Chariot, brass cleaver, armour of destiny, dragonbane gem, gouge tusks, shield Doombull - Ramhorn Helm, sword of swift striking, heavy armour, shield, dawn stone, uncanny senses, gnarled hide (or the ‘standard’). Wargor - BSB - HA, shield, beast banner Troops 29 Gor - Ahw, FC 23 Gor - ahw, FC 5 Ungor raiders Tuskgor chariot Tuskgor chariot 5 Minotaurs, ahw, FC, blackened plate 1 Ghorgon 1 Ghorgon Does this seem a reasonable list, especially if facing one of the previously posted wood elf lists? It has strengths but also some glaring weaknesses (yep I’ve completely ignored magic for one.). Happy to play against this list. (I think it would be fun to use as well actually) Stag Elf hero vs Razorgor Chariot beastlord here we go. I didn't understand the blackened plate on the minotaurs though? Is that a magical standard or some Glottkin/eefl option? I'll insist on using Chillhammer rules for the twin Ghorgons though, just a heads up. All that means is they get a 6+ regeneration save and there is no cap to the bonus attacks they can get. I can't have 2 epic models like that having no saves at all against the pesky elves I'll be using (unless flaming of course). I appreciate you going to all this trouble.
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Post by knoffles on Sept 20, 2018 7:55:12 GMT
The Minotaur champion can take a magic item and this item gives him heavy armour, a 2++ Ward vs flaming attacks and the unit a 4++ ward vs flaming attacks.
I won’t object to the chillhammer rules on the Ghorgons and no problem on meeting. Couldn’t not take the opportunity when it came up!
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