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Post by gregwarhamsters on Jul 22, 2017 21:53:50 GMT
Right, let’s talk Tomb Kings.
First of all I’m going to say that I’m no expert, I’ve not won any tournaments with my army but I enjoy playing with them. I’ve collected Tomb Kings for a number of years and as I started before 8th some of the model selections may not be strictly what people may expect. For example I have 3 Necro knights, a unit considered by many to be one of the best in the TK book, I’ve not actually included them in many of my lists and this is purely down to my model collection rather than as a personal preference. My older (6th-7th Edn lists) were chariot heavy, had scorpions, screaming skull catapults, some archers and some warriors, BSB with the banner of the hidden dead and of course a King with the flail of skulls…
I know many armies can be played in various ways, for example my friend plays preferring the lore of death while I go with the lore of light, neither is wrong but it does affect the way you may play your army. He’ll take a King or Prince in his list to lead say a unit of Tomb Guard while I’m hoping to roll up the speed of light.
So, what does a Tomb King army bring that other armies may not?
The Tomb King book was one of the first in 8th and they had to do that to get away from the incantations, for those of you that don’t know what the incantations were. It’s simple, you rolled your spell as if it was a bound spell but could be cast on a 1+ your opponent could always attempt to dispel it but if you were able to, you could attempt to cast it again. You’d never cast it irresistibly but you could try to cast it again and again never actually failing to cast. It was a brilliant mechanic.
However I believe Tomb Kings remain one of the more powerful magic using armies around. The casket of souls, something that strikes fear in any opponent adds a number (d3) power dice to your magic phase and if you take a hierotitan each casting within 12” a bonus d3 is added to the casting level. It’s not uncommon to have 12/4 magic phases which should see a couple of your spells being uncontested.
Arrows of Asaph. You shoot based on your Bs with NO modifiers, don’t care if you’ve moved, screened by trees or shooting into hard cover, you’ll always hit on a 5+ doesn’t sound great but actually if you think about it all the other armies either moving or firing at long range will commonly need at least a 5 or maybe a 6.
My will be done, the influence of the King or a Prince to make your troops have a better weapon skill – WS6 skeletons instead of WS2 makes a real difference I can tell you.
Hierophant, the army is animated by a high level liche, the highest in the army must take Nehekhara magic, if they die the army becomes magically unstable and may crumble. A bit like vampire counts and their general but the hierophant should never see combat.
Entombed beneath the sands. Honestly, it’s not as good as previous editions but having certain units come onto the battle field that your opponent cannot plan for it extremely useful.
Not really a few abilities I see you rushing down the shops to pick up a Tomb King army for I know, but causing fear is something they share with daemons and vampire counts, the ability to heal your own troops isn’t something new either but we’re talking about the whole package of how the undead operate and the different types of unit the army brings. They are the only army able to take units of chariots and have access to units able to have killing blow and a limited poison capability.
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Post by gregwarhamsters on Jul 22, 2017 21:54:26 GMT
So, the units and characters of the Khemri army…
Now remember this is my opinion based on a 6th edition army where GW didn’t allow special characters in their own tournaments, jumping ahead to 8th I’m still somewhat bias and don’t usually select special characters and the units I have and use are historically sound but not necessarily what you’d take in a 8th edition list (see scorpions!)
Settra
Not the most expensive special character and his abilities have changed with the editions, he’s a 4+/4++ save but his ability to give all units within 6” his WS7 by my will be done is just great. It’s a pain he’s on an odd chariot base (having 4 horses) but his use is situational. I’d say a must in larger games but anything less than 2000 you’d struggle to get your points back.
High Queen Khalida
We was robbed! Seriously, she’s a special character, tomb king, has the curse but DOESN’T have my will be done! It’s even been FAQ’d that she doesn’t have the ability. Wrong… so wrong… She does lend her BS to any unit so you’ll see her with 40+ archers around her, most I’ve see is 100. They’ll hit on a 4+ and are poisonous but missile fire never won a game of 8th. My first TK special character but I’ve not used her that often as there are too many limitations and she lends to a certain style of play.
Arkhan the Black
5th Level death mage able to be your hierophant, many consider this an auto include in their army. I prefer a Nek/Light combo so haven’t actually used his although I have converted a model to be him when and if I choose to play him.
Grand Hierophant Khatep
A lore master of Nehekhara, reason enough to take him. Again I’ve not used him to date but I’ve planned to make a model and use him in larger games.
The Herald Nekaph
He wasn’t in the old book and while I’ve not used him in 8th I have the perfect model, a King with the flail of skulls is now turned into the herald Nekaph. Actually a good character to take, it’s possible to get him to a 4+ killing blow.
Prince Apophas
Quirky character, very situational his rules lend themselves to taking out enemy characters as he rerolls to hit and wound against a nominated individual, however he’s not really the strongest or toughest of models. I’d look to take him as a warmachine hunter, able to fly (remember TK don’t march) can cause terror and is entombed so can get into the enemy deployment area.
Ramhotep the Visionary
One of the most popular characters as he allows a random animated construct unit an armour reroll. Commonly used with Necro knights in the army. Does mean however that you’re not likely to take other constructs and I consider hierotitans a must.
Tomb King and Tomb Prince
The fighting characters of the army, one bonus is that they have 1 wound more than their living counterparts, usual to see them armed with great weapons and the emphasis of the magic items is to ensure their survivability. The great thing about them is their ability to effect the normal troops in their unit, (My will be done) by lending their weapon skill to units such as the normal skeleton.
There are a couple of extra rules both these characters have, firstly they are flammable and second should they be killed they can curse the unit or individual responsible. I personally don’t think it’s a good as the previous version but it is what it is and it’s possible to take your opponent with you.
Tomb Herlads
I’ve never seen them use. The exception would be a BSB but even then it’s a rarity to see a BSB in a Khemri army. They don’t get to be influenced by My will be done so the only thing they bring is a killing blow apart from that I’d expect to see more princes (who are 40 points more expensive) but get you +1WS, +1T, +1W but lack killing blow. The BSB in an army reduces the loss you may take in a crumble by one. Not really enough to make it viable.
Necrotect
The normal version of the special character Ramhotep, gives the unit hatred but is usually one of the first casualties removing that bonus. A nice to have but usually points spent elsewhere.
High Liche and Liche priests
You need the highest level priest as your hierophant, he keeps the army animated and on his demise, the entire army may crumble into the dust. (A good idea to keep out of harm’s way) They have access to the Lore of Nehekhara, light and death. A lot depends on your spell selection to the type of army you’re likely to take. (I’ll cover this later on)
Core units
Skeleton warriors
Standard skeletons comes with a shield. You can pay for spears and light armour if you wish.
Skeleton archers
Normal bow and hand weapon, remember the Arrows of Asaph rule? These guys hit everything on a 5+
Skeleton horsemen
Basic horsemen, spears and shields as standard and the possibility to take light armour. One nice ability they have is vanguard, usually reserved for fast cavalry.
Skeleton horse archers
Bows and little else. They can scout and are fast (cough) cavalry.
Skeleton chariots
The only unit of chariots in the game. The skeletons get 2 attacks basic so 4 attacks per chariot, they are armed with spears and bows wysiwyg suggests a single spear and single bow but it doesn’t specify – in the old rules it stated the driver has a hand weapon while the other had a spear and a bow. Nothing specific in these rules so I’m going with the crew being identically armed. (Nothing in the FAQ)
Special units
Tomb Guard
Skeleton elite infantry, able to be armed with either hand weapon and shield or to pay extra for a halberd. They’re strong at S4 and tough T4 and they have the killing blow rule.
Necropolis knights
A new addition to the rank of the undead – snake riders. Basically tomb guard riding monstrous cavalry. Best armour save in the army with a 3+, the riders have killing blow while the serpents have poisoned attacks. They lack the ability to take a magical standard. The can be entombed at an additional cost.
Tomb scorpion
Not as useful as in previous editions as the entombed rules doesn’t allow a charge on the turn they appear, they’ve also lost a wound on a stat line change. They are magically resistant, have the killing blow and poison attacks rule. The FAQ states they can now be deployed alongside your army – you need to state this before deployment.
Ushabti
Monstrous infantry, very visual unit with heads of vultures, asps and Egyptian dogs. They used to have ritual blades (strike in I order) but now default to great weapons. They can swap these out for great bows (S6) or additional hand weapons.
Tomb Swarm
A swarm of bugs, poison attacks and the ability to be entombed.
Carrion
These guys are pretty tough and strong, not much else to add really. They can fly of course but if they lose a combat they’ll pop pretty easily.
Khemri Warsphinx
The tomb guard crew have killing blow and of course the kitty is pretty strong and can benefit from a thundercrush attack, basically a stone thrower type attack with the small template being used and d3 wounds to the model under the centre of the template. It can thunderstomp and you may pay for a poison attack and a breath weapon. One point to note however they are T8 which should make them indestructible but a anything can be wounded on a 6. Even worst, poison against them deters most generals from taking these.
Sepulchral stalkers
Entombed beneath the sands, armed with halberds and has a unique shooting attack, you roll an artillery die per stalker and add the totals you then swap around the I and T of your target before rolling to wound. Great against Dwarves but useless against elves.
Rare units
Necrolith Colossus
The old bone giant. Not seen that often but can be upgraded to take additional hand weapon, great weapon (S8) or a bow of the great desert which is basically a bolt thrower. The unstoppable assault is just that, for every unsaved wound you roll an extra attack, this has the same rule so you can keep going. They can also thunderstomp.
Hierotitan
Basically a magic using Colossus. You get spirit leech and shems burning gaze as bound spells but he doesn’t count as a mage so cannot channel dice. The reason he’s most likely to be taken is that within 12” of another caster he adds d3 to their casting total for each spell.
Necrosphinx
Basically a flying kitty. One of its attacks is made at S10 with heroic killing blow though. Can be upgraded to have poison attacks.
Screaming skull catapult
An undead stone thrower, any unit that suffers a single casualty (or more) has to make a panic test, the skulls of the foe upgrade is now quiet expensive (at 30 points) but the leadership for any panic test is at -1.
Casket of souls
The light of death is a bound (5) direct damage ability, it has a range of 48” and is a leadership based attack. Rolling 3d6 you subtract your leadership, if it’s over you suffer than many wounds, ward saves may be taken. The light of death may jump from unit to unit (within 6”) on a 3+. In addition the casket(s) add d3 power dice to the pool. Just a point of note. The casket is T10 so is harder to kill from cannon fire than most things, plus it should be out of sight if deployed correctly. If it is destroyed however everything within 12” gets 4+ roll, if failed it suffers d6 S6 hits.
Army specific magic items
Destroyer of Eternities (80) (King on Foot) +2S (but doesn’t say it’s a great weapon) Heroic killing blow. May make a single sweeping attack hitting all those in base to base (rider and monster are both hit)
Blade on Antarhak (50) For every unsaved wound the wielder gains back a wound, if at full wounds he gets regen until the next turn.
Golden death mask (60) Model causes terror, in addition units within 6” cannot use generals inspiring presence or BSB’s hold your ground special rules.
Cloak of the dunes (50) (infantry character on foot) wearer can fly. If you fly over a unit they take 2d6 S2 hits.
Scroll of mighty incantations (50) Before rolling for a spell the priest may add a number (equal to his level) of bonus power dice. They don’t count as power dice so you still need to roll at least one from your pile, any double (these dice) causes a miscast and irresistible force.
Enkhils Kanopi (25) Bound level 3. And remains in play spell on the table is dispelled on a 2+ and for each spell stopped add d3 power dice to your own pool.
Standard of undying legions (50) Bound level 5, bearers unit only, the unit recovers d6+2 wounds.
Banner of the hidden dead (90) Any unit of infantry, cavalry or chariots up to 175 points (FAQ’d) gains the entombed special rule. They emerge within 12” of the banner. Units with that rule already can reroll scatter and artillery dice (both or neither) when emerging.
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Post by gregwarhamsters on Jul 22, 2017 21:55:01 GMT
My Credentials
So why me? Why am I writing this and not some tournament champ, well I’m passionate about my Tomb Kings and as such became heavily involved in the Tomb King forum and for a number of years I’ve been one of the Admins on the site. Personally I have no interest in AoS I won’t discourage it as it’s still TK but it’s not my bag, I much prefer to keep the 8th part of the forum going. I'm going to base my theory around 2400 points because as you know the higher points value games things become distorted with far too many combinations to cover. Now I’ve been collecting Tomb Kings for a number of years and ironically this sometimes put me at a disadvantage when selecting my army. You may think that crazy but I find it harder to write a TK list than say a Lizardman list. The reason is that I have so many choices of TK while the Lizardman army is new to me and a lot less models to pick from. To that end I’m going to look at the units I own and suggest ways to use them. Since the demise of the Tomb King range I’ve decided to pull out all those models I’ve not used and get them painted up, remember GW didn’t allow special characters in their tournament so it was pointless playing games with them with the intention of going to Nottingham on our annual pilgrimage. Actually I’ve only ever used Khalida, but I’ve now collected or converted all but Khatep which will be a nice little project on its own. Now I don’t want to turn this into a “look what I’ve got” exercise and compare wallet sizes I’ve only a small unit of Necro Knights, another box in the garage, I don’t have any stalkers but I’m hoping to be able to convert something to make them appear as if coming out of the ground with the bitz left over. I have two boxes of Warsphinx/Necrosphinx which I’m going to make into the latter as I don’t have any flying cats at the moment but apart from that I’ve pretty much got all the models. All the gear and no idea as they say. Now as I said, I’m no expert and sometimes army books become blended into each other the rules for it came from below and entombed, Ushabti’s ritual blades to their great weapons, tomb guard now losing the magic weapon status but still have killing blow etc etc. So lets look at how I set up my army and my personal preferences.
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Post by gregwarhamsters on Jul 22, 2017 21:55:51 GMT
Lists & Tactics
Tomb Kings have always been an underpowered army, a lower tier but I like playing them. In previous editions you had mainly two builds, the Liche High priest where you’d use the casket, pair of screaming skull catapults massed troops and quite possibly a BSB with the banner of the hidden dead (when the rules said you had to auto flee from a unit larger than your own that caused fear should you lose combat) or the Tomb King list where he’d lead a unit of chariots around and armed with the flail of skull take two wounds off of you with every swipe. Both armies would use scorpions However with the introduction of 8th Tomb Kings got a quick make over, gone were the incantations and the introduction of the Lores of Light and death meant you had two different styles of play straight away. The death snipe army (commonly led by Arkhan) and the light council. Missile fire isn’t what it used to be, the troops due to the random charge element are on you faster and I just think missile fire never won games in 8th. If you want lots of shooting play 40K. Increased point allowances and the removal of the one lord maximum changed things considerably. So where do I begin? While I’m going to theory some lists I’m really looking at my own model selection and actually put my money where my mouth is. So I’m going to talk through a generic list and how I’d look at taking on anyone at my club. First of all I’m in the light magic school of thought. This means I need to take a Hierophant on Nehekharan so that’s a level 4. I also want maximum spell selections for my light mage, another level 4. Liche priest (210)
level 4 Hierophant. (Nekekhara).
Liche High priest (210)
4th Level (Light). Now I’m looking how my magic phase will work. I want more dice than my opponent so a casket is mandatory. It’s good against armoured targets which TK struggle against and you get an extra D3 power dice. As Tomb Kings are slow (even with the incantation of the desert wind which allows units within 12” an additional move) I’m likely to be close together. The Hierotitan while expensive is another auto include for me. He can be in combat and has a couple of bound spells but most importantly he adds d3 to each casting within 12” of him. Casket (135)
Hierotitan (175)Now, the meta at our club as really embraced 8th and it’s common to see a bus or two on a Friday night. Large chariot units aren’t common place and we tend to only spend the required amount on core choices but I need a combat unit. The options really fall to core chariots or Tomb Guard. You can of course go with Necro Knights but I’d suggest a minimum of six as unless you’ve deployed them in your own lines they’re going to be out of spell range for healing purposes. I’m currently playing with 30-40 Tomb Guard. Now I like WYSIWYG and mine have hand weapons and shields. There’s a lot of debate on whether halberds are better but so much can be theory hammered and it’s dependent on your foe as well as the dice rolls. I like the parry save and my guys are cheaper. 40 Tomb Guard (470)
(11) Full command (30)
40 Tomb Guard (550)
(11) Halberds (2) Full command (30)Now I’ve not selected any core so far. Assuming you’re going with Tomb Guard as your combat unit you now need chaff and tar pit units. While I really want to embrace the TK Arrows of the Asp rule I don’t feel large units of archers work (not without Khalida at any rate) however smaller units of archers may be used as diverters. Problem is of course, if you’re killed or crumble the enemy get to reform and all you’ve done is lose a unit. I much prefer the slightly more expensive cavalry option, plus with their scout and vanguard ability you can get them into no mans land where they’ll actually be doing the job you want them to do. Horsemen will need a musician to work well but they can vanguard out of your lines and angle towards the enemy threat. Horse archers deploying as scouts can take advantage of gaps in the enemy lines and threaten warmachines or act as diverters alongside their horsemen counterparts. I’d also consider taking a bunker unit for the hierophant. Many consider a unit of archers but I like putting him on a steed where he can join a horseman unit staying safe. 5 Horse archers (70)
5 horse archers (70)
5 Horsemen (70) (mus)
5 Horsemen (70) (mus)
8 Horsemen (116) (Std/Mus) So we’re still short on core by a couple of hundred. I tend to go cheap with my warriors, theory being I can buy more and heal those up, again I prefer hand weapon and shields than spend out extra on spears and light armour. My reasoning is simple. While I’m going to stick a prince or King in the unit so they benefit from the My Will Be Done rule they’re not very good. I’m going to deploy them deep so as to counter my opponents steadfast rule. Even with a full command and spears I’m looking at best 15 attacks but no parry. If I went with light armour I’m going to get a save against S4 but at what cost? I still can’t parry. Remember you can parry any strength of attack. I can give them light armour with their hand weapon and shield increasing their cost but I only get 10 attacks. Let’s look at the size of each unit assuming I need to spend the remaining 204 points on core choices. 29 Warriors (204)
(4) Light armour (1) spear (1) hand weapon and shield (-) Full command (30)
35 Warriors (205)
(4) Light armour (1) hand weapon and shield (-) Full command (30)
35 Warriors (205)
(4) Spear (1) hand weapon and shield (-) Full command (30)
35 Warriors (205)
(4) Light armour (1) hand weapon and shield (-) Full command (30)
44 Warriors (206)
(4) hand weapon and shield (-) Full command (30) My method I’m looking at 9 ranks deep. So far I’ve looked at magic, a combat unit, a tar pit and some chaff. A pair of screaming skull catapults wouldn’t go amiss and maybe the skulls of the foe if you have any points left over. SSC (90) x2 (180)So far the army is shaping up. Lords and hero’s 410
Core 602
Special 470
Rare 490
Total 1972 (428 to spend) Now I mentioned a King or Prince but you also need some magic items to help out the army. I would therefore suggest a dispel scroll (25) and a sceptre of stability (15) I’m not a fan of the channeling staff, it uses up an arcane slot and while it in theory should generate 4 dice per game (against 2 normal channels) it just doesn’t. The Sceptre on the other hand gives you a get out of gaol free card because you roll an extra d6 after the other dice have been rolled. I wanted to give both the High liches steeds (15) so that’s another 30 points spent. I’ve got 358 to spend on a King or Prince and anything else. So let’s look at the King/Prince options. Not many enemies take flaming attacks but your heroes are flammable so you need to protect them were possible against that. With a prince I’d normally take the armour of destiny (50) and a great weapon. Again I’m relying on light magic to give them Ws10 making them harder to hit. This makes the King more desirable as he can take more magic and hopefully live longer. Armour of destiny (50) dragon bane gem (5) great weapon is possible. Remember your hierophant while he has regen (6) he’s lacking a ward save himself. All things to consider. I’m going to armour him up with Armour of silvered steel (45) talisman of preservation (45) and a great weapon (6) King (266)
(170) Armour of silvered steel (45) talisman of preservation (45) and a great weapon (6)
2 steeds (30) scroll (25) sceptre (15)
Total 336 with 92 points to spend. I don’t have enough to buy a 2nd level priest, although a level 1 is an option. I’m looking at something other than the catapults or the casket to threaten enemy war machines, I can afford a scorpion or a pair of tomb swarms. 3 Carrion would be nice and with 20 points left over I can get another 5 warriors. OK, so list written. Tactics (hopefully my thoughts have unfolded as we selected the units. King leads the Skeletons in an attempt to pin the enemy's main force in place, the diverters are used to enable this, they are in turn flanked by the tomb guard. All units where possible are buffed with light magic or Nek. There isn't a lot of missile fire so chaff units of the enemy may prove to be troublesome but small unit vs small unit the skeleton horsemen are capable on the charge, at all times I would consider healing them up - points denial if nothing else. So, what would I do if we went with a fan favourite, the Khalida list. Now recently I’ve increased my number of archers but I’m not looking at the extremes of 100 bowmen (partly as I like the older style of bow and I’m not convinced the Khalida list would work at our club. Empire player 30+ Knights that sort of thing. A Khalida list from our own forumHello everyone. Just wanted to get some thoughts on a 3000 points all comers list I created. Lords - 620pts
High Queen Khalida - general Liche High Priest - Hierophant, Lore of Nehekhara, lvl 4, Talisman of Preservation Heroes - 364pts
Liche Priest - Lore of Hehkhara, lvl 1, dispel scroll, iron curse icon Ramhotep the Visionary Tomb Prince - great weapon, Armour of Destiny Core - 750pts
Skeleton Archers X75 - full command Skeleton Archers X20 - champion Skeleton Horse Archers X5 Skeleton Horse Archers X5 Special - 951pts
Carrion X3 Necropolis Knights X5 - full command Tomb Guard X38 - full command, halberds Rare - 315pts
Casket of Souls Screaming Skull Catapult Screaming Skull Catapult Comes out to 3000pts on the button. Follow the link above if you wish to add comments to this list Greg
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Post by knoffles on Jul 22, 2017 23:01:52 GMT
Cheers Greg, looking forward to the rest.
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Post by wilsonthenarc on Jul 24, 2017 20:51:38 GMT
Incantations... It’s simple... It was a brilliant mechanic. Yes, 'Twas. I miss it.
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Post by jukei on Jan 24, 2019 10:30:31 GMT
Hello Greg, Hello guys I am new to this forum but I am a warhammer eight ed. player. In the last years I have been playing several fantasy armies but TK were and are my favourite one... I would like to thank Greg for the very interesting comments. I hope also my contribute can be somehow interesting for someone. During this last years I have been trying several playing style. With some I was very confident and I miserably failed With others I was completely skeptical but I had to change may mind after a couple of play testing. So let 's go on ….
All started when ,by chance, I saw on you tube some battle reports Lord Tremendous uploaded. He was obstinate in playing the following list
Lord Tremendous army backbone :
Tomb king Liche 4th level nehekhahara necrotect 58 warriors shield hand weapon and light armour 3 chariots with banner of flame 20 archers ( as Hierophant bunker) sphinx with fiery roar casket of soul Ierotitan
With the time he changed often some special and rare slots. He tried out Sepulchral stalkers... with success I should say He tried a necrosphinx ( he sweared all the time for the bad performances) He tried scorpions … skull catapult ...adding, as Greg does, a second liche 4 lv light …..and so on .
After watching with interest all this battle reports ( more than 50 ….I think eheheheh) I decided to adopt some ideas and personalize the rest...
Let s start with special Character .
I know some of you won 't like or simply aren't allowed to play with that...but I kindly suggest you really to give this guy a go.
Khatep... Khatep is Mr. Right. Why?Because t being A Nehekhara Loremaster is a huge advantage … Often it happened that with a liche Lev.4 I did 't get exactly the spells I wanted and because I play generally with only 1 wizard lev 4 …..I was disappointed. Next advantage is the possibility to reroll casting dice once per turn ...ok no explanation needed here. It means avoiding miscast ...it means having a controlled and more stable magic phase....and TK are relying on magic.... he has also a a magic scroll but ...it 's for me nothing so special. The cost is elevated but …..I grant you....It can be worth to try. I play only with Khatep as wizard ( no dispel scroll.....it 's risky I know...I know ) and I support him with …..casket of souuuuuls +Hierotitan. (adding D3 dices it's a really important and moreover we have an aggressive incantation to play) Instead Ierotitan adds +D3 to each casting attempt and this is crucial . Let 's say also that his laser glance will be handy more than once ….
So …..again ….My choices are
Khatep + casket +Hierotitan …
That's the first part of my list I wanted to share with you all. Soon I will go on ...
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Post by jukei on Jan 25, 2019 15:10:06 GMT
Episode II before I go on I should say that in my area we can to bring until 50% of Heroes and Lords :-) ...... -Tomb King with Blade of Antarhak, armour of silver Steel, Dragon bane Gem ( he has a 2+ AS a 2+ WS vs flames and a magic weapon which can either heal him either give regeneration) . I changed several times Tomb King equipement ...and I should say I liked also The "Tank King "with with armour of silver steel, Talisman of preservation and great weapon ... 2+ and 4++. In the end I chose the first setup because I like to have the chance to heal my General and to have an effective protection against flame attacks.
- Tomb King with glittering scales Golden death mask of Kharnut and great weapon
Having 2 tomb kings comes from my several attempts to find an "extreme" setup for my army. The mask is a really interesting object. It causes terror, in addition units within 6” cannot use generals inspiring presence or BSB’s hold your ground special rules. In a while I will explain why this choice and how I deploy this second king.
Unfortunately Mask is expensive ...( I think I cannot talk about points here) and I had not so many options left to give a sort of protection to my TK so Glittering scales is an answer which works fine for me.
heroes - Necrotect
Core
-3 skeleton chariots standard bearer Banner of eternal flame ( useful against regeneration ) -38 archers . this is the Khatep 's bunker but it 's not only this. I have in this Unit also Tomb king with golden mask ...
This unit is interesting 1) I deploy in horde formation . Characters in the corners . 2) It s an effective unit vs chaff and to weaken some opponent ' s units. 28 shots work fine against chariots.... Heavy Cavalry ( 2 -3 or more can fall) and helped me against some Monsters ( I mean in killing them after they were with 1 or 2 wounds left) 3) it s the perfect target for Nehek spell which gives x2 shots In melee having Skeletons with WS 6 helps a lot ...they all have also regen 6+ because of Khatep. My second TK, even if not so protected, was never killed so easily... and last but not less important ....the mask is a huuuge help . Often this Item discouraged my opponents to charge ...or at least I could see always He was thinking twice before doing it.
-58 Skeleton warriors with Hand weapon shields in horde formation Here I have my general Tomb King with Blade of Antarhak and my Necrotect Champion in important here because I tend to extend as much as I can The ws 6+ on my skeleton keeping my General alive.
The TK is not a killing machine but , instead ,I realize with the experience is really resilient. General Has to be here in order to make the skeleton warriors interesting for the opponent....
Special
-Khemrian Warsphinx It 's a star in my list if it doesn t fall against cannon and heavy shot or poison shots .
- 8 Ushabti with great weapon Let s say here you are my death star .... Ushabti are cool model ...rules are not the best I should say ..but I did my best to make them work and I tried them in several list until I found my set up. why 8? I realized 6 were never enough incisive . They have great weapon ..so they attack last and often only 4 or 3 of them could strike back. ( often also less if they were targeted by enemy archers) I tried then 12 ..10 ... But this was a massive units which cost a lot of point and prevented me to take other things I needed Wtth the time I found out 8-9 is a good compromise. In melee they are incisive enough with Ws4 and S6 attacks Often before answering in melee I loose 2 or 3 of them but 18 or 15 attacks W4 at S6 are something I really need in the army. Often I deploy them In a way to not be further then 12" from Necrotect and so I do with the Sphinx. This grants them a 6+ reg and I realized that saving also a wound on them makes a huge difference... It happened the sphynx survived to cannon ...or that with that one wound left it could cause the damage I wanted before becoming sand again... Also on ushabti reg 6+ meant a lot. 1 ushabti with 1 wound left can strike back with 3 attacks which otherwise I would have lost.
Rare
Casket of souls ( see above) Hierotitan ( see above) I should add I deploy him on a flank of archers ..I need him not only for the help in my magic phase but also ...in middle late game to protect Khatep 's Unit he can redirect....he can charge... he has good stats for keeping a unit busy for the time i need... he is able to help ushabti on the flank in case they struggle in a fight... Normally he is a really good resource ...and he can survive often until the end. Opponent 's cannon will fire on Sphinx and casket of souls for all the game ...and so Hierotitan became with time a reliable resource.
Here you are my 2500 points list. you can swap the second TK for a Prince in case you want to play 2400 points list or in case you want to add a scorpion or a second wizard.
I suggest you to try this list once even with proxy ...and after a while I am sure you will find it interesting and challenging.
I hope you like and appreciate it.
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Post by knoffles on Jan 27, 2019 19:45:57 GMT
Thanks for the additional thoughts jukei. I’ve barely played TKs in 8th but do have a game against them in the near future so the more thoughts the better. With regards to giving points, I don’t think there are any issues doing so, definitely not for the odd item here and there, especially as GW no longer produce or sell the army books or support the game.
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Post by jukei on Jan 28, 2019 9:17:09 GMT
I am glad you found my thoughts useful . Thanks for your reply. In case you wish to have suggestions about how to front them ...feel free to ask me anytime.
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Post by grandmasterwang on Feb 4, 2019 18:23:53 GMT
Do you run the Ushabti 3 wide with 2 spare after the second rank? Or are you going 2 ranks of 4?
I've always wanted to try a large Ushabti unit but don't have the models.
I can vouch for Khatep being a fearsome caster and I prefer him to Arkhan for lore reasons.
I enjoyed reading your list and thoughts behind it.
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Post by jukei on Feb 5, 2019 7:16:23 GMT
Hello Grandmasterwang.thanks for your comment. It 's my way to play tomb Kings after 4 years of playtesting ....:-) Regarding Ushabti. - I have 12 with great weapon but I am still searching at least 6 of them with great bow I searched, in vain, also Chinese resin reproduction.... If someone knows something about reproduction or second hand market ...please contact me via pm or write here ! Anyway I am sad GW axed our army and so great miniatures.GW is walking on the wrong path.... - I suggest you to proxy ...or find alternative miniatures ( mantic ...for example...) www.manticgames.com/mantic-shop/kings-of-war/empire-of-dust/product/empire-of-dust-enslaved-guardian-regiment.htmlI think they are ...meh..but what can we do? - I play them always ...always... 4 x2 because 1) foot print is not so big and they are still easy to manoeuvre. 2) I don 't take the risk to lose 3 of them because of a lucky cannon ball shot... 3) if I deploy them in 3 ranks the third one doesn't give me a bonus because is incomplete. Regarding my list I forgot to tell that in case for some reason ( ETC rules for example ) you are allowed to bring more than 2500 points....I would definitely add to the list sepulchral stalkers . Really precious unit against WM and monsters.
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Post by grandmasterwang on Mar 14, 2019 0:54:38 GMT
I think those models are probably above average for Mantic.
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Post by NIGHTBRINGER on May 5, 2019 5:17:19 GMT
Let s start with special Character . I know some of you won 't like or simply aren't allowed to play with that...but I kindly suggest you really to give this guy a go. Khatep... Khatep is Mr. Right. Why?Because t being A Nehekhara Loremaster is a huge advantage … Often it happened that with a liche Lev.4 I did 't get exactly the spells I wanted and because I play generally with only 1 wizard lev 4 …..I was disappointed. Next advantage is the possibility to reroll casting dice once per turn ...ok no explanation needed here. It means avoiding miscast ...it means having a controlled and more stable magic phase....and TK are relying on magic.... he has also a a magic scroll but ...it 's for me nothing so special. The cost is elevated but …..I grant you....It can be worth to try. I play only with Khatep as wizard ( no dispel scroll.....it 's risky I know...I know ) and I support him with …..casket of souuuuuls +Hierotitan. (adding D3 dices it's a really important and moreover we have an aggressive incantation to play) Instead Ierotitan adds +D3 to each casting attempt and this is crucial . Let 's say also that his laser glance will be handy more than once …. So …..again ….My choices are Khatep + casket +Hierotitan … That's the first part of my list I wanted to share with you all. Soon I will go on ... That is an interesting list, thank you for sharing it. It does look like an fun list to field. I do have one concern/question. What happens if your opponent significantly out ranges you (for example: Dwarfs, Wood Elves, Orcs & Goblin gunline, Empire and even Tomb Kings) and simply sits back and fires? Currently the ranged firepower of your army consists of 38 archers, the Casket's Light of Death, Hierotitan's two bound spells and skullstorm (and a few shots from the chariots). I'd worry that your opponent could easily overpower your list at distance. The reason this concerns me is that the list is extremely slow (especially if your opponent dispels the incantation of the Desert Wind). How many turns does it take a non-marching M4/5 unit to reach a reliable charge range? I think this is a very unique concern for Tomb Kings because of the inability to march. Have you had an opponent just sit back and not approach? How have you countered this? How do you disable a gunline? One of the core tenets I adhere to (perhaps incorrectly) when playing Tomb Kings is to try to force the enemy to come to me. This can be done in a multitude of ways by combining a significant amount of the following elements: Skeleton Archers, Casket, Lore of Death, Lore of Light, SSC, Khalida-star and Stalkers. This seems to work, but it does limit my list building a bit. I'd love to explore other counter strategies to an opponent who sits back with significant fire power.
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Post by NIGHTBRINGER on May 8, 2019 21:40:55 GMT
Tomb HerladsI’ve never seen them use. The exception would be a BSB but even then it’s a rarity to see a BSB in a Khemri army. They don’t get to be influenced by My will be done so the only thing they bring is a killing blow apart from that I’d expect to see more princes (who are 40 points more expensive) but get you +1WS, +1T, +1W but lack killing blow. The BSB in an army reduces the loss you may take in a crumble by one. Not really enough to make it viable. I'd like to suggest one other potential use for them. I think a case can be made for fielding a defensively built Tomb Herald alongside of a Destroyer of Eternities Tomb King. With the DoE costing 80 points, the Tomb King doesn't have many options available for defense. Having a Tomb Herald intercepting a wound a turn might keep the highly offensively potent Tomb King around longer to do his work! It may or may not be worth the points, but I think an argument can be made for it.
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