What armies best represent the upper tier of power level?
Nov 16, 2017 15:13:37 GMT
via mobile
wilsonthenarc, grandmasterwang, and 2 more like this
Post by navster on Nov 16, 2017 15:13:37 GMT
PU
Hi Guys ,
Nav here again wanting to share my two pennies or what they are worth. SO I use to lay a lot of tournaments in the UK scene and what I learned from gaming in 8th was that the game doesn’t need rebalancing rather that each tournament had unique comps and tehse where usually the best now ther eis nothing wrong with playing the game out of the box but top tier armies have a field day most of the time .
Tally comps and Swedish comp system introduced a new dynamic to the game thius changing the balance of the armies and in my opinion encourages themed and unique armies with some nice charm.
Anyway Top Teir Armies are:-
1) Warriors of Chaos :- 3 up ward save heroes with the ability to reroll 1s 33% chance of failure plus a 1 up armour, may be even re-rollable ,pretty brutal on top of the fact these heroes lords are riding flying disks which you can’t redirect cause they fly.
But wait a minute nav if the heroes are flying surely the whole army would be lagging behind oh wait I have two chimeras two crusher units and marauder horsemen and chariots for core never mind . Oh and they have demon princes and hellcannons which combo-ed with magic can take you off turn 1 GG. Some people are going to say they are a glass hammer yeah they are a glass hammer made of bullet proof glass J.
2) Daemons of Chaos- Very hard and insane builds can be made with this army even fluffy themed list are insane try a Tzeentch army with flamers and magic everywhere still can beat a lot of armies. Typical nasty build was he who has no name ( shhhhh Kairos the..) combo with nurgle army and a skull cannon and there you go a top tier insane army that can roll over anything even banner of the world dragon cant save you against this most High elf players would draw against them or have narrow wins . The reason for the strength of the army is the fact that the minus one to hit for Nurgle in close combat made all the Nurgle units elite in combat . Won’t go into much detail here but they are bent basically.
3) Lizardmen:- The army that can do everything good leadership good magic good monsters good shooting and good combat they have everything it’s a gateway army I feel new players wanting to ge into te game should try lizards then step down into a lower or mid-tier army and then taste how it feels to fail leadership nine tests on 2d6 J or fail to dispel spells without the ability to reroll. Lizards coud be insane if there are no caps on the amount of Skinks you can take or how much magic dice you can use limit that and they are fine and balanced.
4) Wood Elves:- Bang Bang Bang your dead thanks for playing Warhammer for three turns of running across the board with your foot troops getting blasted by my core while my eagles and fast cav redirect you and I then squish you with my wild riders oh wait you have a monster that fly’s ahh no worries I got poison shots here baby take it off now you have nothing unless you have a chaos lord on a disk chasing my army around. WE are the ultimate redirecting shenanigan filled army truly horrible with woods that pop out of the ground teleporting troops with some tricks they can be brutal if there is no limit on the amount of bows they can take can be managed by most armies that have some assess to shooting as t3 elves really really don’t like enemies with any bows give me 50 Arrow boyz and a posion banner + doom diver and I will take these tree huggers off the board J. Very fragile army would take some time getting used to but once mastered can get big wins easy with minimal loss.
5) Ogres:- When the new book was released that year was dominated by these guys no one new how to handle iron blasters and mournfang. Very strong hard hitting core units assess to good magic items/item (hellheart and the frost banner) good shooting assess to monsters and cannons and monsterous cav one of the best unit sin the game Mournfang . again another low cost gateway army good for beginers to start with you can just run forward and kill stuff not much thinking required unless you take the hsooting build with 16 leadbelchers and two ironblasters on heavens magic cast Harmonic converance and kiss the enemy goodbye. Not as broken as warriors as they are mostly WS3 but they are fast and have impact hits and stomps everywhere .
Mid Tier Armies
1) High Elves :- Not super filth unless the build with a Dragonknight or silver helm bus is allowed with all the banners and magic weapons can be countered with artillery or shooting armies. I can count on one hand how many high elf armies that have one any big events they require a higher skill set to play then the top teir armies very fragile units and if you get flanked by anything you tend to lose your units the elite foot troops are easily countered by most monsters. Some nice builds are out there for these guys and lots of variety especially since they were allowed access to Phoenixes.
2) Skaven:- I HATE SKAVEN. Imagine a board full of l10 re-rollable 50 strong units of rats everywhere where the skaven can even shoot into and kill your guys as well as their own hmm horrible right . Acess to a unique lore which can reduce your toughness to o or can just take 4d6 of your infantry off the board no save of any kind. Good leadership good magic good shooting but lack in combat apart from A-bomb and doom wheel and some Jabroni with the sword that killed Nagash. Weakness are armies that can reduce leadership and have multiple terror causers. Still requires a higher skill set to play.
3) Empire:- Balanced army has everything you need. Armour shooting magic monsters. They key skill for empire players is however to be able to say ten from the back if you can do this you can play this army easy no probs. Monstrous cav thrown in there for some hard hitting stuff a steam tank and captain Pegasus and your good to go. Weakness are weak core even the knights are not that amazing since steadfast came around. Usually this army likes to stay back shoot you zap you then charge you so that means they are close to the board edge start making them take some terror or panic test a fail here and there and the army crumbles but easier said then done. Can’t really complain about them the only thing that makes them a bit bent is when you don’t cap light magic as this encourages defensive play so much so that the empire player is taking thinks off in his magic phase and shooting phase with ease.
4) Dark elves:- Lot of people wil wonder why these guys arnt top teir the reason for this is that they are still elves still t3 and don’t have the assess to as much shooting and fast cav as wood leves do yes they have a lot of shooting but this is shooting that can be modified by movement cover etc whereas the WE have arrows that can just hit you on 3s regardless of modifiers so in the course of a 6 turn game they get more bang for your buck. Very strong army in terms of shooting with lots of fats cav and skirmishers plu monsters and amazing infantry units WEleves are one of the best core infantry units outside of warriors of chaos they simply wreck low armoured stuff, small unit of 14 WE 7 wide can half a t3 x40 man unit with some good rolling of course. Peg heores probably the most annoying thing about this army cap them at two and its fine any more then its bent.
5) Dwarfs:- Yaaaaawn yeah these little guys movement three realy sucks they like to stay in their hills and take everyone sgold for them sleves no concern for anybody else yeah no surprise I don’t like them J. Good armour good shooting and very hard characthers. Gyroes fixed a lot of problems for them but unless you spam them these guys struggle chasing the elves around they don’t tend to los big as all the points are in the big units that no body charges so most players just kill the War machines and gyros and call it game maybe try a number 6 spell and cross there fingers. Weakness are inititive tests and movement. Units are hard to crack so doesn’t require a high skill set to play but be warned they get real boring real fats as most games mirror the last one you played you shoot your cannons a few times and your iron drakes never see any combat. Again this army can be fixed with tally comp encouraging players to take more fun builder like lots of small units of ten or twenty dwarfs running around.
6) Chaos Dwarfs not a real army get a real book but if they where they would go somewhere here good in the right hands but once you play against them you learn the few tricks they have easy to counter can be bent with that stupid magic item that steals your opponents magic dice but otherwise manageable.
Lower Tier
1) Orcs and Goblins best of the worst races . Absolutely brutal in the hands of a skilled player most armies have terrible core but orcs don’t they have amazing core units goblins and fats cave orcs and then Savage Orcs. Orcs become dull and bent when they use the orc gun line very boring when you cap this by saying only 2 or 3 war machines fixes that problem they have some amazing unique magic with the ability to be buffed by some cool goblin magic and poison banners your core units can delete most elite units savages with poison on a 5 and reroll to hit hurts people and orcs love hurting people . Weakness are the same as dwarfs but topped with that the animosity and low ldship. Can be fixed by taking black orcs everywhere but where’s the fun in that J unless its themed ?.
2) Tomb Kings if you just let them march they would be fine but because they can;
3) ’t they lose out on so much. Can be bent if Khalida turns but with a hundred bows and a light council seen this done by Zack Martin a dozen times and it’s hard to shift specially when the intruded morghist to the army. Again brutal in the right hands but make a mistake and your army crumbles . Good magic and shooing combat is so so but unique ability to deep strike around the table makes them have a few tricks they counter elves nicely though with lots of magic missiles and bows they shift those pesky elves off the board and send a t8 monster to fight your elf lord and elite troops. Only hard hitting units they have a re snakes and Sphinx’s and even they aren’t that great unless you buff them problem with this book is some of the units are over costed the Ushabti should be slightly cheaper and have access to halberds and let them march then you’r talking about an army that can dish out hurt . But even with the restrictions of not marching in the right hands this defensive armycan collect big wins. I remember the first Clash of Swords I went to was won by Tomb kings .
4) Bretonians – Truly disappointed not to get a book in eight for these guys and the beats no idea why apparently GW has a whole brand new range of Brets in a warehouse somewhere in the UK ready to be dispatched before they pulled the plug would have loved to have seen them. So old book means a lot of the magic items are naff in eight and the introduction of steadfast made the knights pretty rubbish unless you can delete most ranks in a enemy unit so you either went big or home wth your knight units . The book forces players to take big expensive knight units that if they don’t take the enemy off they get flanked and they get shifted. Could have been fixed if they had hatred like the empire has by taking a hero or if they could negate ranks by charging in the side with a lance formation. They have a few tricks like the green night the long bomb charge thing but that’s it . I have seen a few tournaments won by these players that can utilise MSU army full of units of 6 knights and 3 pegs running around the board can work and especially good at missions games that involve objective grabbing or breakthrough etc. Not a starter army not for kids takes time to learn the game before touching these guys also checkout Heartless youtube vidoes some great batreps there and knowledge.
5) Beastmen:- Remember that kid in school you would practise suplexes and cloths lines on? , well that kid ran off and became a beastmen the true handicapped army of Warhammer requires a really good skillset and more importantly a decent comp pack . Can be brutal if no limit on magic and with herdstone and detah magic would be stupid . A lot of te armies problems stem from over costed monsters if they where cheaper would be better . The only good thing for me that came from the end times was the ability for beastmen to take marks 3 up flying doombulls and frenzied gore sure helped fixed the beastmen . Again high skill set required if you take big units be prepared to lose them to a failed terror test here and there watch your butthole change from a 5 pence hole to a 50 pence hole when you take that test. Beastmen are very hard to play they have strong magic and some hard hitting stuff but lack armour or regen or wards that’s where they struggle lifting tends to be done by the Doombulls . The magic items are very cool though an unique beastmen have access to their own lore which has one or two amazing spells . Very fun army to play but hard to get a win with check out Once bittens360 on youtube he inspired me to start my beastmen years ago.
Now I don’t know where I would put Vampire Counts they seem either mid-tier or high tier depending on the comp pack provided I find that they suffer when they can’t take a bus list or Manfred but excel too much sometimes with the bus list so not sure where I would place them . VC are a mid tier army that do require a high level of skill to play but haven’t used my Vamps much to see where I would place them. Thanks for reading guys hope you enjoyed this post.
Hi Guys ,
Nav here again wanting to share my two pennies or what they are worth. SO I use to lay a lot of tournaments in the UK scene and what I learned from gaming in 8th was that the game doesn’t need rebalancing rather that each tournament had unique comps and tehse where usually the best now ther eis nothing wrong with playing the game out of the box but top tier armies have a field day most of the time .
Tally comps and Swedish comp system introduced a new dynamic to the game thius changing the balance of the armies and in my opinion encourages themed and unique armies with some nice charm.
Anyway Top Teir Armies are:-
1) Warriors of Chaos :- 3 up ward save heroes with the ability to reroll 1s 33% chance of failure plus a 1 up armour, may be even re-rollable ,pretty brutal on top of the fact these heroes lords are riding flying disks which you can’t redirect cause they fly.
But wait a minute nav if the heroes are flying surely the whole army would be lagging behind oh wait I have two chimeras two crusher units and marauder horsemen and chariots for core never mind . Oh and they have demon princes and hellcannons which combo-ed with magic can take you off turn 1 GG. Some people are going to say they are a glass hammer yeah they are a glass hammer made of bullet proof glass J.
2) Daemons of Chaos- Very hard and insane builds can be made with this army even fluffy themed list are insane try a Tzeentch army with flamers and magic everywhere still can beat a lot of armies. Typical nasty build was he who has no name ( shhhhh Kairos the..) combo with nurgle army and a skull cannon and there you go a top tier insane army that can roll over anything even banner of the world dragon cant save you against this most High elf players would draw against them or have narrow wins . The reason for the strength of the army is the fact that the minus one to hit for Nurgle in close combat made all the Nurgle units elite in combat . Won’t go into much detail here but they are bent basically.
3) Lizardmen:- The army that can do everything good leadership good magic good monsters good shooting and good combat they have everything it’s a gateway army I feel new players wanting to ge into te game should try lizards then step down into a lower or mid-tier army and then taste how it feels to fail leadership nine tests on 2d6 J or fail to dispel spells without the ability to reroll. Lizards coud be insane if there are no caps on the amount of Skinks you can take or how much magic dice you can use limit that and they are fine and balanced.
4) Wood Elves:- Bang Bang Bang your dead thanks for playing Warhammer for three turns of running across the board with your foot troops getting blasted by my core while my eagles and fast cav redirect you and I then squish you with my wild riders oh wait you have a monster that fly’s ahh no worries I got poison shots here baby take it off now you have nothing unless you have a chaos lord on a disk chasing my army around. WE are the ultimate redirecting shenanigan filled army truly horrible with woods that pop out of the ground teleporting troops with some tricks they can be brutal if there is no limit on the amount of bows they can take can be managed by most armies that have some assess to shooting as t3 elves really really don’t like enemies with any bows give me 50 Arrow boyz and a posion banner + doom diver and I will take these tree huggers off the board J. Very fragile army would take some time getting used to but once mastered can get big wins easy with minimal loss.
5) Ogres:- When the new book was released that year was dominated by these guys no one new how to handle iron blasters and mournfang. Very strong hard hitting core units assess to good magic items/item (hellheart and the frost banner) good shooting assess to monsters and cannons and monsterous cav one of the best unit sin the game Mournfang . again another low cost gateway army good for beginers to start with you can just run forward and kill stuff not much thinking required unless you take the hsooting build with 16 leadbelchers and two ironblasters on heavens magic cast Harmonic converance and kiss the enemy goodbye. Not as broken as warriors as they are mostly WS3 but they are fast and have impact hits and stomps everywhere .
Mid Tier Armies
1) High Elves :- Not super filth unless the build with a Dragonknight or silver helm bus is allowed with all the banners and magic weapons can be countered with artillery or shooting armies. I can count on one hand how many high elf armies that have one any big events they require a higher skill set to play then the top teir armies very fragile units and if you get flanked by anything you tend to lose your units the elite foot troops are easily countered by most monsters. Some nice builds are out there for these guys and lots of variety especially since they were allowed access to Phoenixes.
2) Skaven:- I HATE SKAVEN. Imagine a board full of l10 re-rollable 50 strong units of rats everywhere where the skaven can even shoot into and kill your guys as well as their own hmm horrible right . Acess to a unique lore which can reduce your toughness to o or can just take 4d6 of your infantry off the board no save of any kind. Good leadership good magic good shooting but lack in combat apart from A-bomb and doom wheel and some Jabroni with the sword that killed Nagash. Weakness are armies that can reduce leadership and have multiple terror causers. Still requires a higher skill set to play.
3) Empire:- Balanced army has everything you need. Armour shooting magic monsters. They key skill for empire players is however to be able to say ten from the back if you can do this you can play this army easy no probs. Monstrous cav thrown in there for some hard hitting stuff a steam tank and captain Pegasus and your good to go. Weakness are weak core even the knights are not that amazing since steadfast came around. Usually this army likes to stay back shoot you zap you then charge you so that means they are close to the board edge start making them take some terror or panic test a fail here and there and the army crumbles but easier said then done. Can’t really complain about them the only thing that makes them a bit bent is when you don’t cap light magic as this encourages defensive play so much so that the empire player is taking thinks off in his magic phase and shooting phase with ease.
4) Dark elves:- Lot of people wil wonder why these guys arnt top teir the reason for this is that they are still elves still t3 and don’t have the assess to as much shooting and fast cav as wood leves do yes they have a lot of shooting but this is shooting that can be modified by movement cover etc whereas the WE have arrows that can just hit you on 3s regardless of modifiers so in the course of a 6 turn game they get more bang for your buck. Very strong army in terms of shooting with lots of fats cav and skirmishers plu monsters and amazing infantry units WEleves are one of the best core infantry units outside of warriors of chaos they simply wreck low armoured stuff, small unit of 14 WE 7 wide can half a t3 x40 man unit with some good rolling of course. Peg heores probably the most annoying thing about this army cap them at two and its fine any more then its bent.
5) Dwarfs:- Yaaaaawn yeah these little guys movement three realy sucks they like to stay in their hills and take everyone sgold for them sleves no concern for anybody else yeah no surprise I don’t like them J. Good armour good shooting and very hard characthers. Gyroes fixed a lot of problems for them but unless you spam them these guys struggle chasing the elves around they don’t tend to los big as all the points are in the big units that no body charges so most players just kill the War machines and gyros and call it game maybe try a number 6 spell and cross there fingers. Weakness are inititive tests and movement. Units are hard to crack so doesn’t require a high skill set to play but be warned they get real boring real fats as most games mirror the last one you played you shoot your cannons a few times and your iron drakes never see any combat. Again this army can be fixed with tally comp encouraging players to take more fun builder like lots of small units of ten or twenty dwarfs running around.
6) Chaos Dwarfs not a real army get a real book but if they where they would go somewhere here good in the right hands but once you play against them you learn the few tricks they have easy to counter can be bent with that stupid magic item that steals your opponents magic dice but otherwise manageable.
Lower Tier
1) Orcs and Goblins best of the worst races . Absolutely brutal in the hands of a skilled player most armies have terrible core but orcs don’t they have amazing core units goblins and fats cave orcs and then Savage Orcs. Orcs become dull and bent when they use the orc gun line very boring when you cap this by saying only 2 or 3 war machines fixes that problem they have some amazing unique magic with the ability to be buffed by some cool goblin magic and poison banners your core units can delete most elite units savages with poison on a 5 and reroll to hit hurts people and orcs love hurting people . Weakness are the same as dwarfs but topped with that the animosity and low ldship. Can be fixed by taking black orcs everywhere but where’s the fun in that J unless its themed ?.
2) Tomb Kings if you just let them march they would be fine but because they can;
3) ’t they lose out on so much. Can be bent if Khalida turns but with a hundred bows and a light council seen this done by Zack Martin a dozen times and it’s hard to shift specially when the intruded morghist to the army. Again brutal in the right hands but make a mistake and your army crumbles . Good magic and shooing combat is so so but unique ability to deep strike around the table makes them have a few tricks they counter elves nicely though with lots of magic missiles and bows they shift those pesky elves off the board and send a t8 monster to fight your elf lord and elite troops. Only hard hitting units they have a re snakes and Sphinx’s and even they aren’t that great unless you buff them problem with this book is some of the units are over costed the Ushabti should be slightly cheaper and have access to halberds and let them march then you’r talking about an army that can dish out hurt . But even with the restrictions of not marching in the right hands this defensive armycan collect big wins. I remember the first Clash of Swords I went to was won by Tomb kings .
4) Bretonians – Truly disappointed not to get a book in eight for these guys and the beats no idea why apparently GW has a whole brand new range of Brets in a warehouse somewhere in the UK ready to be dispatched before they pulled the plug would have loved to have seen them. So old book means a lot of the magic items are naff in eight and the introduction of steadfast made the knights pretty rubbish unless you can delete most ranks in a enemy unit so you either went big or home wth your knight units . The book forces players to take big expensive knight units that if they don’t take the enemy off they get flanked and they get shifted. Could have been fixed if they had hatred like the empire has by taking a hero or if they could negate ranks by charging in the side with a lance formation. They have a few tricks like the green night the long bomb charge thing but that’s it . I have seen a few tournaments won by these players that can utilise MSU army full of units of 6 knights and 3 pegs running around the board can work and especially good at missions games that involve objective grabbing or breakthrough etc. Not a starter army not for kids takes time to learn the game before touching these guys also checkout Heartless youtube vidoes some great batreps there and knowledge.
5) Beastmen:- Remember that kid in school you would practise suplexes and cloths lines on? , well that kid ran off and became a beastmen the true handicapped army of Warhammer requires a really good skillset and more importantly a decent comp pack . Can be brutal if no limit on magic and with herdstone and detah magic would be stupid . A lot of te armies problems stem from over costed monsters if they where cheaper would be better . The only good thing for me that came from the end times was the ability for beastmen to take marks 3 up flying doombulls and frenzied gore sure helped fixed the beastmen . Again high skill set required if you take big units be prepared to lose them to a failed terror test here and there watch your butthole change from a 5 pence hole to a 50 pence hole when you take that test. Beastmen are very hard to play they have strong magic and some hard hitting stuff but lack armour or regen or wards that’s where they struggle lifting tends to be done by the Doombulls . The magic items are very cool though an unique beastmen have access to their own lore which has one or two amazing spells . Very fun army to play but hard to get a win with check out Once bittens360 on youtube he inspired me to start my beastmen years ago.
Now I don’t know where I would put Vampire Counts they seem either mid-tier or high tier depending on the comp pack provided I find that they suffer when they can’t take a bus list or Manfred but excel too much sometimes with the bus list so not sure where I would place them . VC are a mid tier army that do require a high level of skill to play but haven’t used my Vamps much to see where I would place them. Thanks for reading guys hope you enjoyed this post.