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Post by bierbaron on Jul 2, 2022 15:36:48 GMT
I've got a question which makes me think since the last game that I had. How do we deal with monstrous characters, possibly flying? I speak of Daemon Princes and Greater Demons mainly, but other, similar characters may fit the bill, too. They thunderstomp my otherwise sublime Strigoi general into the dust in CC, and they dictate when and where they hit. Declining the inevitable challenge or accepting with a champion does also not help much when the biggie hits a flank, as I then have only 3 points of cc (three ranks and a banner vs a flank from the get-go) which means the GD will still win or lose by a maginal number, pinning my unit and neutralizing my general. Tarpitting with cheap units like Zombies is not an option unless the opponent screws up, which I do not bank on. The only remotely dangerous thing I came up with would be a Terrorgheist which may discourage the GD to charge. Also, as a general strategy, is it viable to just castle up in a corner and just keep re-raising models lost by shooting and/or magic? Does not sound too exciting, but this way, I could at least try to keep my flanks protected. Any ideas are welcome. Thanks in advance.
And, btw., a really great guide, sedge, which helped my a lot so far!
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Post by grandmasterwang on Jul 6, 2022 12:55:52 GMT
I've got a question which makes me think since the last game that I had. How do we deal with monstrous characters, possibly flying? I speak of Daemon Princes and Greater Demons mainly, but other, similar characters may fit the bill, too. They thunderstomp my otherwise sublime Strigoi general into the dust in CC, and they dictate when and where they hit. Declining the inevitable challenge or accepting with a champion does also not help much when the biggie hits a flank, as I then have only 3 points of cc (three ranks and a banner vs a flank from the get-go) which means the GD will still win or lose by a maginal number, pinning my unit and neutralizing my general. Tarpitting with cheap units like Zombies is not an option unless the opponent screws up, which I do not bank on. The only remotely dangerous thing I came up with would be a Terrorgheist which may discourage the GD to charge. Also, as a general strategy, is it viable to just castle up in a corner and just keep re-raising models lost by shooting and/or magic? Does not sound too exciting, but this way, I could at least try to keep my flanks protected. Any ideas are welcome. Thanks in advance. And, btw., a really great guide, sedge, which helped my a lot so far! Magic helps a lot potentially vs Daemon Princes and Greater Daemons. Death snipes and you can debuff them. Most flying things won't be this problematic to deal with. Terrorgheist on full wounds is very fearsome for both. Banshee on the cheap can also be used. Remember a Daemon Prince only has 4 wounds. If you know you will 100% be facing them you could consider the Torc magic item (vs flying things only) As VC you don't have strong shooting but have your own scary flying things. DP and Greater Daemons are super expensive and have no protection in units, you can use this. "Declining the inevitable challenge or accepting with a champion does also not help much when the biggie hits a flank, as I then have only 3 points of cc (three ranks and a banner vs a flank from the get-go) which means the GD will still win or lose by a maginal number, pinning my unit and neutralizing my general." Maybe put your general in a different unit then in this particular matchup. Remember you can resurrect the champion. He can only get 6 combat res....so if you lose 3 skeletons..so what....that's his 400+ point unit tied up. You can kill his other stuff. If you have Vargheists for example they can fly around taking out stuff quicker than his DP or GD can. In the above example....if you can scream at him while he's locked up it's GG eventually for the Greater Daemon. A Flying Tyrant or Doombull cannot Thunderstomp your Strigoi so normally you won't have this issue. "Also, as a general strategy, is it viable to just castle up in a corner and just keep re-raising models lost by shooting and/or magic? Does not sound too exciting, but this way, I could at least try to keep my flanks protected" Potentially viable but also annoying, can rub people the wrong way and they won't feel bad about bringing gunlines (ie dwarfs and empire) and some matchups can counter castle and outshoot you easily.
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Post by bierbaron on Jul 6, 2022 18:35:09 GMT
This is why I love this forum, thank you for your comprehensive answer and ideas! It seems I am on a similar track with my changes to my armylist as well as with additonal changes in tactics at the moment. The Terrorgheist is definitely in, even though I may struggle to hide it from the Skullcannon. Death magic is tempting me as well as the Cursed Book, it has potentially some very nice debuffs without the risk of a miscast. With my Strigoi army, I have two combat worthy blocks, Crypt Ghouls and Grave Guard. Maybe my worst mistake in the last game was to spread my army too wide, and so I could not interchange my characters between these two combat blocks during the game, or even the Zombie tarpit, and so these units got picked apart one after the other. I will definitely try to keep my units better together in the future. This worked well already against DE, but they had no Dragon rider, and the Hydra was no match for the Strigoi. But maybe my worst mistake was really not accepting the challenge of the DP, but letting my unit generals unit get caught without countercharge/scream nearby as a backup plan in the first place. Thank you so much!
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Post by knoffles on Oct 1, 2022 14:06:20 GMT
sedge, rereading this and it might be worth adding to the curse of the revenant vamp power (or maybe under the skabscrath entry) that the one time it’s worth considering that vamp Power is in conjunction with that weapon, as it improves the effect of the scream.
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Post by sedge on Oct 9, 2022 17:18:20 GMT
sedge , rereading this and it might be worth adding to the curse of the revenant vamp power (or maybe under the skabscrath entry) that the one time it’s worth considering that vamp Power is in conjunction with that weapon, as it improves the effect of the scream. Thanks - added a line on that to the Curse of the Revenant section.
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Post by thezildo on Oct 18, 2022 20:31:23 GMT
I've got a question which makes me think since the last game that I had. How do we deal with monstrous characters, possibly flying? I speak of Daemon Princes and Greater Demons mainly, but other, similar characters may fit the bill, too. They thunderstomp my otherwise sublime Strigoi general into the dust in CC, and they dictate when and where they hit. Declining the inevitable challenge or accepting with a champion does also not help much when the biggie hits a flank, as I then have only 3 points of cc (three ranks and a banner vs a flank from the get-go) which means the GD will still win or lose by a maginal number, pinning my unit and neutralizing my general. Tarpitting with cheap units like Zombies is not an option unless the opponent screws up, which I do not bank on. The only remotely dangerous thing I came up with would be a Terrorgheist which may discourage the GD to charge. Also, as a general strategy, is it viable to just castle up in a corner and just keep re-raising models lost by shooting and/or magic? Does not sound too exciting, but this way, I could at least try to keep my flanks protected. Any ideas are welcome. Thanks in advance. And, btw., a really great guide, sedge, which helped my a lot so far! In my experience, VC is best when you put the pressure onto your opponent and just have waves of undead inching towards them with every turn. VC shooting is…. Well, to put it nicely, subpar (aside from the sweet soothing sounds of a terrorgheist’s scream). So saddle up those boney bois and let the thunderous sound of the heels hitting the ground haunt the dreams of your opponent. Zombies front and center? Sure. 4 units of 5 dire wolves for chaff? Love it! Black Knights marching right through terrain? YES PLEASE! A Terrorgheist (or better yet, 2!) looming around to bring the pain at a moments notice? Stop, please, I can only get so excited. Not sure what your list is or what units you have access to but man, crypt horrors are fantastic. A unit of 6 or 8 of them in 2 ranks will both hold up a good unit for a long time and packs enough punch to win the combat. Plus, they aren’t vampiric, and they aren’t large targets so they regain 1+Wizard level wounds for invocation. So that one t5 regen 5+ 3W crypt horror your opponent finally worked down can come back at full strength. It’s been a while since I read the entire tactic guide so I’m probably getting redundant on things but the main point I’m trying to make is that VC is an offensive army that gets better in the magic phase and wins the game in close combat phase. Take the fight to your opponent and hit ‘em hard. My typical VC games are very boring turn 1-2, very active turn 3-5, and clean up is turn 6. It seems like you realized it was a problem to be spread out too far across the board. VC is an army that is better when closer together. One strategy that I will often use if to only deploy on 1/2 or 2/3rds of the board. Keep your units close to your general and BSB for the benefits they give while strategically avoiding that tough unit your opponent place on one table edge as long as possible. Best to avoid a tough unit on foot as it’ll take longer for them to get into the fight, line up directly across from the fliers and take away their speed/mobility. After all, you want to be in combat so taunt them to come see how many skellies they can take out (you’ll just bring them back anyways). Hope it helps, VC is without a doubt my favorite army to date talking about them has been nice since I set them aside for a while to take it easy on my group for a bit. Best of luck.
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Post by grandmasterwang on Oct 26, 2022 13:27:45 GMT
sedge, rereading this and it might be worth adding to the curse of the revenant vamp power (or maybe under the skabscrath entry) that the one time it’s worth considering that vamp Power is in conjunction with that weapon, as it improves the effect of the scream. Oooh I like it. Didn't think of that.
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Post by IbnSeesAll on Nov 2, 2022 10:41:27 GMT
sedge , rereading this and it might be worth adding to the curse of the revenant vamp power (or maybe under the skabscrath entry) that the one time it’s worth considering that vamp Power is in conjunction with that weapon, as it improves the effect of the scream. You can take Aura of Dark Majesty too for a +2 bonus to the scream. Also helps the Terrorgheist's scream if you love a points sink and take it as a ghoul king's mount
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