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Post by wilsonthenarc on Sept 12, 2018 13:47:29 GMT
Tricks, tricks, tricksey.
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Post by wilsonthenarc on Sept 12, 2018 15:08:37 GMT
What are your thoughts on a "theoretical" corner to corner charge? i.e. red has a unit of 25mmx25mm infantry, 8 wide, 200mm wide unit i.e. blue has a unit of 20mmx20mm infantry, 10 wide, 200mm wide unit
Q1). If the 2 units are perfectly aligned, exact theoretical geometry corner to corner - Can a third unit charge in on the front?
Q2). If blue knows that red has another unit that could charge in on their left side... Can blue reform slightly to the right AND KEEP the same number of models in combat, legally? aka the crabby side shuffle?? Same # of models wide, same # of mdoels deep, just 1/4 inch to the right.... This would disallow red from making that frontal charge.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Sept 12, 2018 15:56:47 GMT
Q1: Yes, as long as the charging unit fulfils the normal requirements for charging.
Q2: Yes, as long as all models (friend or foe) that were in CC remain in CC.
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Post by wilsonthenarc on Sept 12, 2018 21:52:02 GMT
Loving this post. I’d never picked up before that if you both want to reform you roll off to decide who has the choice of going first. Here's the Zinger of the day... How does one decide order/priority in a combat with more than 2 players? (and by that I mean players with units actively involved in THAT combat) FvonSigmaringenI can't recall it ever being, to me and mine, a huge deal tactics wise... But, we do play some 3-person campaign games and we play more Storm of Magic than most groups. Or, sub-question, what if there were four players, 2 from side A (yellow, red -- good guys) and 2 from side B (green, blue -- bad guys). Heck, I could see a scenario where yellow wants to reform first in this way to accomplish XYZ but his own teammate red wants to wait and reform lastly in another way to accomplish JKL.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Sept 13, 2018 7:56:19 GMT
Unless specified otherwise, Allied Armies follow the normal rules for CC. In MCC, there is a single winner/loser and the losing side takes a single Break test. You also take a single roll-off for determining "which side makes all of his reforms first." Since Yellow and Red are on the same side, they should come to an agreement to go first or second, or, if they cannot, roll off amongst themselves. They cannot decide that Yellow goes first, then the enemy, and then Red (unless your opponent would agree, of course).
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Sept 13, 2018 8:31:54 GMT
Q2). If blue knows that red has another unit that could charge in on their left side... Can blue reform slightly to the right AND KEEP the same number of models in combat, legally? aka the crabby side shuffle?? Same # of models wide, same # of mdoels deep, just 1/4 inch to the right.... This would disallow red from making that frontal charge. To add to my prvious answer: while it would disallow red from making a frontal charge, it could lead to a flank charge, as the shift may mean that the majority of the enemy models in the front rank may end up in the flank arc of your unit.
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Post by wilsonthenarc on Sept 14, 2018 0:49:15 GMT
In MCC, there is a single winner/loser and the losing side takes a single Break test. Uh??? You say single, but I know that each unit of the losing side tests individually. One unit might be Ld 7, one might be in the General bubble and be Ld 10, and another might be Ld 8 in the BSB bubble. Heck, the losing side could contain a mix or mortal, undead (crumble) and demonic (unstable) type rolls. If you're the loser---Any strategy or sub-strategy to the order in which you could or should roll? (Aside from the normal "If the general and/or BSB has to test, roll them last so other units can use their bubble first")
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Sept 14, 2018 8:10:57 GMT
Yes, of course, you are quite correct. Quandoque bonus dormitat Fidelis. However, that does not change what i said about the combat reform sequence. There is still only one winning/losing side, even though the units take an individual Break test.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Sept 14, 2018 8:13:06 GMT
Combat Reform: tactical uses (continued)Blue can still counter this to some degree with his own combat reform - for a price. He can still shift outside the frontal arc of unit C (but not D) by reforming into a horde (5.4). While he cannot escape a charge by unit D, it is now at least turned into a frontal, not flank charge: he will not be disrupted. The price he has to pay is the chance of being steadfast. The maximum number of ranks he can achieve now is 5; and if he loses only two models he is down to four. Note that Red could have decreased that chance even more, by reforming into a bus, instead of just sliding.
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Post by wilsonthenarc on Sept 14, 2018 20:40:20 GMT
Quandoque bonus dormitat Fidelis. I am so ill educated. Struggling to translate... --Sometimes good sleep? --Sometimes good sleep can help?
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Sept 15, 2018 8:01:16 GMT
It is a (admittedly somewhat insolent) variation on Horace's Quandoque bonus dormitat Homerus (Ars Poetica 359; sometimes even good Homer falls asleep).
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Sept 15, 2018 10:15:46 GMT
In the previous examples we have seen how a combat reform can be used to unblock units by the player whose turn will be next. However, it can also be used to block units by his opponent. In 5.5, the next turn will Blue's, and unit D is poised to charge unit C, which is a HVT, say a lvl 4 wizard. If Red can combat reform first (5.6), he can block unit D from charging unit C (and also from charging unit B itself in the flank). However, unit D can still charge unit B instead, and if unit B is destroyed or flees in the ensuing combat with A & D, unit D can pursue/overrun into C, which then has only the option to hold, rather than flee, if the charge had not been blocked. On the plus side: since he is not fleeing, the lvl 4 wizard is still able to dispel and use magic items in the next (Blue) Magic phase.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Sept 16, 2018 8:48:38 GMT
In 5.6, there is really nothing that Blue can do to counter Red by reforming himself. However, if Blue can reform first (5.7), he can prevent Red from making any meaningful combat reform, and in the next turn, unit D can choose between a frontal charge against C or a flank charge against B.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Sept 17, 2018 22:21:33 GMT
So far, we have dealt with combat reform and units as such. Next, we will turn to the subject of combat reform and individual models within the units. Therefore, this may be a good time for anyone to bring up ideas/comments/questions about the combat reform of entire units that may not have been covered yet.
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Post by wilsonthenarc on Sept 18, 2018 12:23:21 GMT
It's a bit off the wall - But did you ever mention Conga lines? Back (in the day) I remember Vampire Counts players using "tricks" like the conga line to tie up an opposing death star unit infinitely long. That isn't reform per say, but related. Care to discuss?
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