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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Nov 9, 2020 0:06:12 GMT
In 6th & 7th edition, a Wizard was allowed to take more than one scroll AND another Arcane Item beside. In the context of the 8th edition, it is true that Peasant Bowmen Skirmishers have increased mobility and -1 to Hit from Shooting, but they cost 2 points more than MoA (or 3 points more for a 6+ AS), while the MoA for 5 points have a 5+ and a 6++ in CC (CC not something you would your Wizard to be in). The Icon would provide an additional 6++/5++. Is that set-up (without the possibility to take a scroll) worth the points? I do not know. As an Empire player, I would normally favour Archers over our other State Troops as a Wizard bunker, but our alternatives providing a 5+ AS would cost as much as the Archers.
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Post by fingolfin78 on Nov 9, 2020 16:02:59 GMT
I know I've read on this site that some people will take a damsel with prayer icon and deploy her in a unit of men at arms. On the first turn she uses the icon, then leaves the men at arms and joins a unit of archers. That way she is bunkered in a unit that is avoiding combat but provides the blessing to the men at arms, whose job it is to be in combat. I know there was some debate at to the legality of this tactic and I don't have the book here to read the exact wording, but I think it works.
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Post by vulcan on Nov 10, 2020 1:04:50 GMT
IIRC it provides the Blessing to the unit, not to the bearer of the item.
EDIT: Reviewing the book, apparently I do not recall correctly after all.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Nov 10, 2020 9:37:02 GMT
The Blessing is granted to "the bearer and the unit she is with." Hence, if she leaves a unit, the unit loses the Blessing.
Having looked at older 8th edition threads elsewhere, it seems that the Damsel is indeed supporting the unit, not the other way around. A standard set-up was to have 25-50 MaA FCG in a bus formation, the Damsel with Icon (and Lore of Beasts for Wyssan's Wildform) to be used as a tarpit and flank protection. I also forgot that the Damsel provides MR1, which would boost the Blessing to 5++/4++ against spells.
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Post by fingolfin78 on Nov 10, 2020 15:55:17 GMT
In that case, how do you protect the damsel once in combat? She can't wear armor, so that's out, and any ward you'd purchase through the brb wouldn't really help all that much since the blessing already gives her a 6++ and 5++ against strength 5+. I guess giving her a 4+ all the time would still be an improvement, just not a very cost effective one. Placing her on a corner can help reduce the number of attacks against her. Giving her the lore of life would allow wounds to be healed, but then you'd miss out on Wyssan's Wildform.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Nov 10, 2020 22:15:49 GMT
Good point. If the Damsel has the Icon, she cannot take the Talisman of Preservation, in any case. As far as I can tell from what I have read so far from relevant threads, Bretonnian players are just leaving it to chance. I guess, they may indeed assume the Blessing remains on the MaA, even when the Damsel has left the unit (e.g. by being dead.) Normally, a phrase like "the bearer and the unit she is with" means that the effect ends, when the character leaves the unit (by being dead, for instance) - unless specifically stated otherwise, of course. The full rule states that "the bearer and the unit she is with are immediately granted the Blessing of the Lady, following all the rules on page 45." Personally, I cannot see that this specifically states otherwise, but I can see where the idea comes from.
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Post by vulcan on Nov 11, 2020 2:31:26 GMT
Bear in mind the blessing has specific conditions for losing it, and the death of a character are not among those conditions.
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Post by fingolfin78 on Nov 11, 2020 2:59:42 GMT
Yeah, I'm pretty torn on this one. The icon is one use only. "The Prayer Icon can be revealed at any time. The bearer and the unit she is with are immediately granted the Blessing of the Lady, following all the rules on page 45. This can allow a unit that has lost the blessing to regain it." It's the "one use only" thing. Revealing the icon is using it, thus it's effect is to grant the blessing upon the bearer and unit she is with when used. Thus I kind of interpret that as meaning the effect is done when used and the presence of the icon and bearer no longer matter, the effect has already been executed. In that case both the bearer and the unit she was with when it was used have the blessing if/until it's lost by the normal rules for the Blessing. But I totally agree that I'd feel much more comfortable with that interpretation if it were explicitly stated.
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Post by knoffles on Nov 14, 2020 11:17:51 GMT
Good point. If the Damsel has the Icon, she cannot take the Talisman of Preservation, in any case. As far as I can tell from what I have read so far from relevant threads, Bretonnian players are just leaving it to chance. I guess, they may indeed assume the Blessing remains on the MaA, even when the Damsel has left the unit ( e.g. by being dead.) Normally, a phrase like "the bearer and the unit she is with" means that the effect ends, when the character leaves the unit (by being dead, for instance) - unless specifically stated otherwise, of course. The full rule states that "the bearer and the unit she is with are immediately granted the Blessing of the Lady, following all the rules on page 45." Personally, I cannot see that this specifically states otherwise, but I can see where the idea comes from. I think you’ve nailed it. It’s played as the MaA unit gets the blessing and keeps it whether she is alive or not, only losing it in those instances that the blessing would normally be lost. It’s one of those areas that may not be RAW but it’s how it was always played (in the same way as units of WEs taking duplicate magic arrows). I’ve can’t say I’ve ever seen the damsel ever having left the unit but I can see the argument for them both retaining the ward.
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Post by stallion12 on Jul 21, 2021 18:24:59 GMT
Was looking at the character builds, and for the one lord/paladin the speed bump, was crown of command a typo? It has both gauntlet of the duel and crown of command listed.
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Post by stallion12 on Jul 22, 2021 19:26:57 GMT
Also, never thought of having the damsel leave the unit after using the prayer. Interesting take.
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Post by knoffles on Feb 4, 2022 0:20:41 GMT
Post 16 - Luke Blaxill’s Bretonnian review
I’ll link this in the main post when I’m at a PC but this is a link to one of my club mates review of the army. He’s been having some good success with them over the last few years in the UK tournament scene and more often than not, ranks in the top 5 (though Warriors are his army of choice).
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Post by stallion12 on Jan 12, 2023 6:57:56 GMT
Found another error. Pegasus knights cant take a magic banner. Unless the faq changed it. They can only take a regular.
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Post by knoffles on Jan 14, 2023 7:54:36 GMT
Found another error. Pegasus knights cant take a magic banner. Unless the faq changed it. They can only take a regular. Thanks for spotting these Stallion. I've removed this and the earlier one you found (apologies I missed that post initially).
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Post by stallion12 on Jan 14, 2023 20:44:50 GMT
Found another error. Pegasus knights cant take a magic banner. Unless the faq changed it. They can only take a regular. Thanks for spotting these Stallion. I've removed this and the earlier one you found (apologies I missed that post initially). Your welcome. I use your guide for advise when I get stuck. It's very well done.
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