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Post by askaval30 on Oct 11, 2018 13:47:17 GMT
Ha, easy:
High Elf Lionstar with 2 High mages and Banner of the World dragon... depending on composition that's about 1700 points of a 2500 point list, add wardsves from high magic, Ethereal from Walk Between Worlds and the Banner and you have a truly uninspired list that is a pain to go up against and makes for a rather boring game.
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Post by wilsonthenarc on Oct 11, 2018 15:53:59 GMT
After much soul searching...The worst (most annoying) army I ever saw get used was the semi-infamous Vampire Counts Terror-Scream / Conga-Line army. The kind of army that you see and you go "*sigh... here we go..". --It was the definition of "Sign, here we go, 2 hours of my life" Don't know what all that is?? I found this somewhat topical thread: www.the-ninth-age.com/index.php?thread/35762-suggestion-to-end-conga-lines-without-weird-and-wordy-restrictions/**I never actually had to play against it, first hand, but I was next to it once on the top tables. **I don't know all the intricacies (but could post a follow up with what I think I know, LOL) **All I know is that it seemed like REALLY un-fun games, top to bottom. After much soul searching... The worst (most annoying) army I ever had to play first hand was a Dark Elf MSU army. MSU = Multiple Small Units. They did a pretty good Wood Elf Avoidance impersonation. It's a typical build... 1 or 2 characters on Dark Pegasi, 1 or 2 units of 10 Crossbowmen, 1 or 2 units of Doomfire Warlocks, etc. Small units, no big "Death Stars", fast, nimble... they play " Keep-Away" for 3 or 4 turns then the get a multi-charge on one of your "Mid-Range" units. FWIW;It's not a terrible [unfair] army build nor a terrible [unfair] set of tactics... I just have never had a fun game against that type of army (Full Disclosure: it's usually cause they beat me solidly and I feel helpless as a general, or cause they're generally un-fun players)
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Post by wilsonthenarc on Oct 11, 2018 15:58:07 GMT
Ha, easy: High Elf Lionstar with 2 High mages and Banner of the World dragon... depending on composition that's about 1700 points of a 2500 point list, add wardsves from high magic, Ethereal from Walk Between Worlds and the Banner and you have a truly uninspired list that is a pain to go up against and makes for a rather boring game. AGREE. Not my #1, "Most Hated"... but a boring list and a boring game. I have also see the same thing done, expect replace "White Lions" with "SwordMasters" Same (similar) end result.
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Post by TheREALricksalamone on Oct 11, 2018 16:14:44 GMT
The worst game I ever played in 8th edition was against the WE avoidance army. I was playing fluffy Mono-Khorne and I had lost the game before a model was placed on the table.
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Post by midnightfox0083 on Oct 11, 2018 17:14:21 GMT
Ha, easy: High Elf Lionstar with 2 High mages and Banner of the World dragon... depending on composition that's about 1700 points of a 2500 point list, add wardsves from high magic, Ethereal from Walk Between Worlds and the Banner and you have a truly uninspired list that is a pain to go up against and makes for a rather boring game. AGREE. Not my #1, "Most Hated"... but a boring list and a boring game. I have also see the same thing done, expect replace "White Lions" with "SwordMasters" Same (similar) end result. I kept seeing it on Swordmasters and Phoenix Guard and basically GG'd with my Skaven every game.
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Post by gjnoronh on Oct 11, 2018 19:50:00 GMT
White Lions have stubborn though don't they? Which ups the reliability. Phoenix Guard have ITP which also has it's benefits.
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Post by midnightfox0083 on Oct 11, 2018 22:15:22 GMT
PG also have a built in Ward, so the few things that DO hurt them have to deal with dual saves.
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Post by Naitsabes on Oct 12, 2018 1:36:38 GMT
what is so annoying/boring/bad about an avoidance army? sure, you won't have massive combats and slugging it out but couldn't it be interesting to try and maneuver your own slow slumbering forces in a way so the WE can't pull off that vicious multi-charge to break one unit and win? Asking for a friend (who contemplates starting wood elves)
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Oct 12, 2018 9:29:15 GMT
Its grind attacks can only be executed in the friendly Movement phase. That is, if it generates Steam Points. In the opponent's CC phase, the Steam Tank has a single WS3 S3 Attack from the Engineer - other than that it does nothing. Admittedly, it is much better than in the 7th edition, where it turned into a useless pile of junk, once it had suffered 4 Wounds. Agreed but it doesn't need the attacks to do it's job. They are just a bonus that gets it a lucky break test from time to time as the unit whittles down. Once it pins a unit in combat that unit is essentially out of the game. 'That front line combat brick you were pushing across the board at my steel legion/gunline you don't get to play with them anymore.' Definitely tops my 8th ed annoyance list. But that works both ways - the Steam Tank is out of the game too. So, you could try to charge the Steam Tank yourself with an appropriate unit (the most appropriate being Ethereals).
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Post by Horace on Oct 12, 2018 9:50:00 GMT
I think avoidance lists are quite annoying if you don't have any idea you may be facing them and turn up with an army completely unsuitable. Otherwise you would actually make use of some BS shooting and take plenty of magic. I guess it depends on what sort of list you generally choose yourself. BoTWD Deathstar White Lions are pretty lame, as tactics go. All these lists are generally played by annoying people though, so you are best off just avoiding playing them
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Post by gjnoronh on Oct 12, 2018 12:39:09 GMT
Agreed but it doesn't need the attacks to do it's job. They are just a bonus that gets it a lucky break test from time to time as the unit whittles down. Once it pins a unit in combat that unit is essentially out of the game. 'That front line combat brick you were pushing across the board at my steel legion/gunline you don't get to play with them anymore.' Definitely tops my 8th ed annoyance list. But that works both ways - the Steam Tank is out of the game too. So, you could try to charge the Steam Tank yourself with an appropriate unit (the most appropriate being Ethereals). Steam Tank 205-260 points IIRC Front line combat infantry unit for me (20 chaos warriors for example) 300 points + any characters which are a minimum of 100 points each for chaos and easily 200-300 range. Stank isn't going to give up VP's in combat, but there is a small chance to give up the warriors on a fluffed break test on steadfast after a lucky grind round. Stank gets to do damage to high priority targets (flyers) first couple of rounds shooting while the warriors slog up field not generating any VP's. Mid game Stank sticks in combat unit is done for the rest of the game. It's a highly advantageous trade to lose the cannon for the mid to late game in exchange for taking one of the few combat bricks off the board before they can hit your lines. There really aren't that many armies with access to ethereals. Sure high strength, armor save ignoring weapons will hurt the Stank but again there aren't that many on the board (even a strength 4 character with Armor save ignoring weapon isn't going to do anything.) Takes initiative tests on the engineers initiative so not easily susceptible to purple sun. Other death snipes go against the tanks characteristics.
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Post by strutsagget on Oct 12, 2018 13:14:23 GMT
Not sure I have any worst. I have not, and my group have not played any tournaments and only been playing for a short time. So we are still a little interest in the most overpowered stuff But yes the best games are those perfectly balanced games where every model dies till one stand in the end as the winner in turn 6 So in most case, it's about bringing evenly matched armies. If I bring fluff list, I want my opponent to do the same and the same with a high-level tournament list. If my opponent wants to run the same army multiple times, I just switch my own army/race instead
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Post by vulcan on Oct 13, 2018 22:29:20 GMT
Deathstars are actually pretty fun to play against, IF you have an army built for maneuver with plenty of chaff. And against something like the BotWDstar, I feel no guilt at all about going full cheese with avoidance tactics up to and including exploiting the skirmisher 'shrink' rule to pin down the One Big Unit while I go massacre the rest of the army. And Lore of Death has plenty of spells for sniping expensive characters out of just such a 'all my eggs in one basket' unit... Not so useful against BotWD, granted, but sometimes you get lucky too.
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Post by frozenfood on Oct 15, 2018 15:41:16 GMT
High elves...in any configuration. In the five years we played, they have never lost a single game. High magic, life, with or without named characters, limit on archers,... Pointy eared bastards were unbeatable.
My steamtank kept blowing up and his steamtank once sniped my general and lvl4 in one turn. They missed their look out sir and their ward saves.
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Post by NIGHTBRINGER on Oct 15, 2018 20:32:19 GMT
Wood Elf avoidance armies = Annoying, but my W/L record against them ain't bad. Reason being, I see these armies and I know what I am going against before deployment. All you need to do, typically, is get 1 very small unit and 1 medium unit of theirs. Wood Elf units are expensive. I feel like I've won quite a few games by a score of 575 to 220 or something like that. Strangely enough, a Tomb Kings army I ran with 2 units of 30 Skellie Archers had a 3-0-1 record versus various Elf "Avoidance" armies. Now imagine if such a Wood Elves list comes up against a TK Khalida-star list.
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