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Post by grandmasterwang on Dec 6, 2018 23:50:31 GMT
I'm certainly no expert on Beastment, but I'd imagine it'd depend what unit you put your Wargor in. You'd probably want him to compensate for the unit's weakness, so if he's bunkered in Gors then some high strength attacks to deal with any high-armour save/toughness units that you get stuck in combat with (so either great weapon or sword of might/ogre blade), and if he's in Bestigors then maybe something that will strike first so you can get some kills in before your Bestigors all get slaughtered - particularly useful against say MSU high elves - 10 Swordmasters would otherwise murder a good couple of ranks. Problem is swordmasters can probably kill the Wargor too A naked Wargor is 85 points, thats 7 Bestigor! (2 wounds vs 7) Swordmasters hit both on 3+ so it's unfortunately a bad matchup either way. Like Knoffles I've never really run a non bsb version. Ive only played a non BSB Wargor thrice ever and 2 of those were to fill up points. Game 1 naked, hand weapon as a kind of mini base chaff pleb thing. Arrowed before combat Game 2 naked, great weapon as a mini chaff pleb thing (maybe I'm a sucker for punishment) l. Killed in combat before striking. Game 3 naked, great weapon in a unit of gor to provide high strength attacks and improved leadership out of generals range. Killed before striking. So im 0 for 3 in terms of the poor Wargor even swinging a blow...that could be to never having upgraded one though. Now all these tries I was trying to conserve points so maybe an item or 2 would make the difference? With the gor situation (unit of 15) i was left thinking that I'd have been better off taking 10 more gor instead. Do you think any common WFB rulebook items would help him out in either a unit or solo role? He does have primal fury (potential rerolls to hit) I'd like to try out some builds. The best Beastmen army book items/gifts get used on the Beastlord, Doombull and BsB so there's not much left over the the lower tier Wargor.
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Post by knoffles on Dec 7, 2018 18:50:29 GMT
Perhaps armour of silvered steel (the 2+ save one) and a great weapon. Not the cheapest but means he’s well protected and hits hard.
For cheapness, HA, shield and gold sigil sword. It won’t remove an opponents ASF but should remove their rerolls and gives him magic attacks. It costs hardly anything more than a naked war Gor.
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Post by grandmasterwang on Dec 26, 2018 19:43:11 GMT
Perhaps armour of silvered steel (the 2+ save one) and a great weapon. Not the cheapest but means he’s well protected and hits hard. For cheapness, HA, shield and gold sigil sword. It won’t remove an opponents ASF but should remove their rerolls and gives him magic attacks. It costs hardly anything more than a naked war Gor. You know I've been pondering Wargor uses and think I've finally found one (not a great one and conditional but I'll take it!!) It's to go with a Beast Banner gor horde (or Bestigor horde/expensive minotaur unit) It's purely to act as an additional debuff to enemy shooting/magic so purely conditional but when put with a very expensive unit could pay off. Wargor would be equipped with the below magic item which is the below one that is wasted on a better, more expensive character. Wargor is more durable than a shaman. "Pelt of the Shadowgave - (Conditional) LA, all shooting at the character and his unit are at -1 to hit. Spells that target them deduct 2 from their roll. Such a minor benefit against shooting or spells shouldn't be this expensive." Against elves it might just do something...? I'm going to try it!
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Post by knoffles on Jan 27, 2019 12:56:04 GMT
The individual posts are now linked into the contents page.
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Post by jukei on Jan 30, 2019 20:33:08 GMT
I am new here and I am also a beastmen player. knoffles thanks really for the great job. Really well done and organized. I appreciated a lot. I don 't know if here it's the right place to ask or of I should open another thread.....but my question is Which is a typical Beastmen army list you can see in your area? I am still doing several tests...but right now what I found working for me is having a Beastlord as general and a Gorebull as BSB. Doombull as general is a really aggressive choice but what I realized is that we do need that better Discipline and a Beastlord is there for this. I normally have the General in a block of 30 Bestigors with standard of discipline and here you are a solid D 10 for all troops in 12".... BSB Gorebull is in a unit of 5 Minotaurs and he is in the 12 " bubble of General... on both sides of my army I deploy chariots. Chariots are also good to support Minotaurs... Don' t misunderstand me ...they don t need a real help ..they are able to smash almost everything but a chariot is helping to charge on unit 's flank and when we win the combat to chase and catch the fleeing unit.( in this Minotaurs are not the best).
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Post by knoffles on Jan 31, 2019 20:40:39 GMT
I am new here and I am also a beastmen player. knoffles thanks really for the great job. Really well done and organized. I appreciated a lot. I don 't know if here it's the right place to ask or of I should open another thread.....but my question is Which is a typical Beastmen army list you can see in your area? I am still doing several tests...but right now what I found working for me is having a Beastlord as general and a Gorebull as BSB. Doombull as general is a really aggressive choice but what I realized is that we do need that better Discipline and a Beastlord is there for this. I normally have the General in a block of 30 Bestigors with standard of discipline and here you are a solid D 10 for all troops in 12".... BSB Gorebull is in a unit of 5 Minotaurs and he is in the 12 " bubble of General... on both sides of my army I deploy chariots. Chariots are also good to support Minotaurs... Don' t misunderstand me ...they don t need a real help ..they are able to smash almost everything but a chariot is helping to charge on unit 's flank and when we win the combat to chase and catch the fleeing unit.( in this Minotaurs are not the best). jukei you can ask here or elsewhere, anywhere is fine 😀. No one in my area played beastmen which is why I started the army so I can literally only answer from my own perspective (or based on the battle reps seen and posts read on the Herdstone forum). Lists can vary quite a bit and it does depend on whether you use 50% lord/hero allowance. The army often gets an additional 200pts to use in tournaments. I started off using a lvl 4 as general in a unit of Bestigor with the standard of Discipline. I used to miscast so much that I have definitely killed more of them myself that way, then through combat. With primal fury being so key, I now tend to put a Beastlord in there with the banner instead for LD10. For core I tend to take a horde of 40-50 Gor with ahw. I find it hard not to put a bsb with the beast banner for +1S in the unit. Sometimes a smaller bunker of 15-20 for my lvl 4 or for the watch tower. Plenty of chaff in the form of at least 2 units of ungor Raiders, 2 razorgor and sometimes 1-2 units of harpies. I almost always took 2 chariots in core (mainly due to limited model options) but I tried out a razorgor chariot for my lord and really liked it so I will definitely be using them in future. I think primal fury on the razorgor makes a huge difference. I tended to take flying doom bulls as I just love them but normally with mixed success. I tried minotaurs a few times but they normally got shot off the board. Part of the issue is my unit sizes (I ‘only’ owned 9). However, now I have my new minotaurs from the recent Zealot miniatures Kickstarter, I have enough to field a substantial block including Gor bull bsb. I’m looking forward to that! I’ve also picked up the special characters from the made to order so pretty much have the full deck now, so I’m going to finally try out a number of them (including Ghorros and some centigor).
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Post by jukei on Feb 1, 2019 20:30:49 GMT
Then if you are the only one to play beastmen.....you should absolutely shine and do your best to win :-) 1) let s say something regarding the wizard as general. a 4th lev is necessary to cast and dispel efficiently... Anyway , I played for a while ( with good results) with 3 wizards lev 2 - lore of beast. I played the herdstone ....and they were in a bunker of gor behind my first battleline. With this set up ........ I always attempt to cast lore of beast signature spell 3 times per turn. At least once ... I always succeeded. I could have so a nice +1 S +1 T on Gor, Bestigor or Minotaurs. Gors start to be competitive... Bestigors really do not need strength 7 but for sure they are more resilient with T5... Minotaurs ....are just awesome! 2) Centigors ohhh I like your style ! you are testing and this is good. I have Ghorros and 9 centigors ( overall 10 ) I played them with with not so good results but I would like to know from you what is your opinion once you have tried them. 3)BSB with beast banner is cool. The only drawback is that ..at best you can give him a 2+ Armour save.... and sometimes is not enough to protect him. 4) how many minotaurs do you have ? I think 2 units ( 5+ 1 Gorbull per each ) can be really good. You should try this 2 blocks..ehhehehe- Having 3 ranks is not good because a cannon with a lucky shot can kill you 3 really expensive models and heavily weaken the unit. So never have a unit with more than 2 ranks. 4 x2 or 3x2 are both a good setup. 5) Zealot miniatures Kickstarter....woww.... great models . No doubts.
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Post by grandmasterwang on Feb 6, 2019 12:38:15 GMT
Then if you are the only one to play beastmen.....you should absolutely shine and do your best to win :-) 1) let s say something regarding the wizard as general. a 4th lev is necessary to cast and dispel efficiently... Anyway , I played for a while ( with good results) with 3 wizards lev 2 - lore of beast. I played the herdstone ....and they were in a bunker of gor behind my first battleline. With this set up ........ I always attempt to cast lore of beast signature spell 3 times per turn. At least once ... I always succeeded. I could have so a nice +1 S +1 T on Gor, Bestigor or Minotaurs. Gors start to be competitive... Bestigors really do not need strength 7 but for sure they are more resilient with T5... Minotaurs ....are just awesome! 2) Centigors ohhh I like your style ! you are testing and this is good. I have Ghorros and 9 centigors ( overall 10 ) I played them with with not so good results but I would like to know from you what is your opinion once you have tried them. 3)BSB with beast banner is cool. The only drawback is that ..at best you can give him a 2+ Armour save.... and sometimes is not enough to protect him. 4) how many minotaurs do you have ? I think 2 units ( 5+ 1 Gorbull per each ) can be really good. You should try this 2 blocks..ehhehehe- Having 3 ranks is not good because a cannon with a lucky shot can kill you 3 really expensive models and heavily weaken the unit. So never have a unit with more than 2 ranks. 4 x2 or 3x2 are both a good setup. 5) Zealot miniatures Kickstarter....woww.... great models . No doubts. Do you include the Glottkin additions? Since Glottkin dropped I haven't played much Beastmen using it's additions as I'm working on assembling/painting my Beastmen army however I've been considering various things in my head and it's a great boon to them. The problem with minotaurs is their points cost and durability. I've recently been experimenting with a small unit of 4 GW minotaurs but with the Mark of Tzeentch and it's helped them tremendously. The mark of Tzeentch is only 2 points for them so adds a meager 8 points to the unit for a 6+ ward save. Something to consider with your minotaur based lists. Mark of Nurgle/Tzeentch I see as being huge for them. Once I finish painting Khazrak I'm going to work on a couple of Ambush based lists. Glottkin is also massive for Beastlord builds.....I can't believe I've only been thripping on the possibilities for the past couple of months. A GW armed Beastlord with a 3+ Ward save is amazing. I have never tried AHW minotaurs unfortunately as I just don't have the models. I've got 7 GW minotaurs.
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Post by jukei on Feb 6, 2019 15:23:40 GMT
Hello Grandmasterwang.:-) happy to read your reply. I normally don 't play with Glottkin but you are completely right. Glottkin rules are really good for beastmen and marks make a lot of difference. Nurgle /tzeentch are really effective.... and don t underestimate khorne on bestigor....It 's cool... Talking about minotaurs... You are right ...they are expensive and "fragile"in terms of protection.. BUT BUT ... Imho if you play them with GW and in block of 4 ....you are not using them efficiently. why? - they are not enough - GW means attack last and then ...here you are the problems
I think for using them more efficiently you should -raise their number as I mentioned before --( 5 works fine for me) -remove GW because in melee we need to attack simultaneously or before some opponent ( Init. 3 is not the best but also not so bad) and more over massify attacks... How? -adding AHW .....+1 attack -adding a champion ......+1 attack -deploy in the Unit a Gorebull they will gain frenzy ..so +1 attack and immune to psychology
so in a 3x 2 unit charging we will have D3 +2 impact hits then the first rank .... Gorebull has 5 attacks ( 4+ 1 Frenzy) Champion 6 attacks! ( 4+1 AHW+1 Frenzy) Minotaur 5 attacks ( 3+1 AWH+1 Frenzy) 16 attacks Strength 5 ..+ on average 4 impact hits ...so 20 second rank ... assuming we lost 2 minotaurs because of arrows...cannon or simply because we attack per initiative and maybe we are slower we will have 3 additional attacks by the minotaur on the second rank If it's the case we have also the stomps... now I don t want to examine the bloodgreed rule.... ..... Let 's go on ... if you want to be more aggressive why don 't use 2 units? eheheh ok all in all It 's expensive but if they enter in melee...they will pay you back...
Defense and protection Champion in one unit is interesting because you talked before about mark of tzeentch... Now I can tell you that also without Glottkin help we can give to the champion Blackened Plate ( 2++ vs flame attack 4++ vs flame attacks to the unit) and also Iron Curse Icon to the gorebull and here you are a 6++ against Wm It s not a comparison with Mark of tzeentch but it 's more than something . Now I am going to share with you one of my lists . I hope you can find good ideas in it.
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Post by jukei on Feb 6, 2019 15:24:36 GMT
beastmen (Warhammer Fantasy 8th ed) [2495pts]
Lords +
Beastlord [248pts]: Shield . Categories: Lords . Armour: Shield, Model: Beastlord, Weapon: Hand Weapon . Magic Items: AB - Trollhide, BRB - Biting Blade, BRB - Crown of Command, BRB - Dragonbane Gem . . Arcane and Enchanted Item: Crown of Command, Armour: Trollhide, Talisman: Dragonbane Gem, Weapon: Biting Blade
+ Heroes +
Bray-Shaman [100pts]: Lore of Beasts, Wizard Level 1 . Categories: Heroes . Model: Bray-Shaman, Weapon: Hand Weapon . Magic Items: BRB - Dispel Scroll . . Arcane and Enchanted Item: Dispel Scroll
Bray-Shaman [115pts]: Lore of Beasts, Wizard Level 1 . Categories: Heroes . Model: Bray-Shaman, Weapon: Hand Weapon . Magic Items: AB - Chalice of Dark Rain . . Talisman: Chalice of Dark Rain
Bray-Shaman [160pts]: Lore of Beasts, Wizard Level 2 . Categories: Heroes . Model: Bray-Shaman, Weapon: Hand Weapon . Magic Items: AB - Shard of the Herdstone . . Arcane and Enchanted Item: Shard of the Herdstone
Gorebull [247pts]: Battle Standard Bearer, Heavy Armour, Shield . Categories: Heroes . Armour: Heavy Armour, Shield, Model: Gorebull, Weapon: Hand Weapon . Magic Items: BRB - Ironcurse Icon, BRB - Talisman of Preservation . . Arcane and Enchanted Item: Ironcurse Icon, Talisman: Talisman of Preservation
Gorebull [222pts]: Heavy Armour, Shield . Categories: Heroes . Armour: Heavy Armour, Shield, Model: Gorebull, Weapon: Hand Weapon . Magic Items: BRB - Dawnstone, BRB - Dragonhelm, Gnarled Hide . . Arcane and Enchanted Item: Gnarled Hide, Armour: Dragonhelm, Talisman: Dawn Stone
+ Core +
Gor Herd [201pts]: Champion, Musician, Standard Bearer . Categories: Core . Model: Foe-render, Weapon: Hand Weapon . 22x Gor: 22x Additional Hand Weapon . . Model: Gor, Weapon: Two/Additional Hand Weapons (Models on foot only)
Gor Herd [337pts]: Champion, Musician, Standard Bearer . Categories: Core . Model: Foe-render, Weapon: Hand Weapon . 39x Gor: 39x Additional Hand Weapon . . Model: Gor, Weapon: Two/Additional Hand Weapons (Models on foot only)
Tuskgor Chariot [80pts] . Categories: Core . Model: Bestigor, Gor, Tuskgor, Tuskgor Chariot, Weapon: Great Weapon, Spear (Mounted)
Tuskgor Chariot [80pts] . Categories: Core . Model: Bestigor, Gor, Tuskgor, Tuskgor Chariot, Weapon: Great Weapon, Spear (Mounted)
+ Special +
Harpies (FAQ'ed) [55pts]: 5x Harpy . Categories: Special . Model: Harpy, Weapon: Hand Weapon
Minotaurs [355pts] . Categories: Special . Armour: Light Armour, Weapon: Hand Weapon . Champion: AB - Blackened Plate . . Armour: Blackened Plate, Model: Bloodkine . 5x Minotaur: 5x Additional Hand Weapon . . Model: Minotaur, Weapon: Two/Additional Hand Weapons (Models on foot only) . Standard Bearer
Minotaurs [295pts] . Categories: Special . Armour: Light Armour, Weapon: Hand Weapon . 5x Minotaur: 5x Additional Hand Weapon . . Model: Minotaur, Weapon: Two/Additional Hand Weapons (Models on foot only)
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Post by jukei on Feb 6, 2019 15:35:19 GMT
Here we have 2 little shining deathstars...:-) as mentioned above. Chariots should support the flank of Minotaurs and gors haries ...chaff
22 gor as bunker for the 3 wizards
40 gor with the beastlord. Now this unit will be the main target of beast signature spells. We have 3 attempts per turn and thanks to the help of additional dices coming from the herd stone we can cast on gors the signature ...and see them bulked , angry and hungry ...:-) On average we will succeed at least once per turn to cast the spell and it s not so bad a +1S+1T
Magic I think is clear ... In defense I had to leave on the shelf the 4lv wizard but there is always a price to pay. we have a dispel scroll ..at least. +2 in dispelling and 3 attempts to channel...(not bad)
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Post by jukei on Feb 6, 2019 15:45:45 GMT
Chalice of Dark Rain is there for give an additional protection to our minotaurs...
General has a solid regeneration 4++ and 2++vs flame attacks I Need to make the unit stubborn so the crown...and I cannot protect better him with an additional AS. Stubborn is crucial on Gors ..
Gorebull 1 .BSB ! I decided to not give him a 1+ rerollable because he is BSB and in case he becomes the target of cannon he needs a Ward Save .... So 4 +AS 4++WS and ironcurse icon for our "fake "tzeentch ward save vs WM on our unit. He is in the unit with Champ.... so further protection for the minotaurs because of the Blackened Plate
Gorebull 2 a nice 1+ rerollable and a ws vs flaming attack He is though... He is in the second minotaur unit.
There is a lot more to say.But I hope you enjoyed.
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Post by jukei on Feb 6, 2019 16:08:16 GMT
I played also another variation....maybe some of you will like it more.
++ Standard (Beastmen - Army Book (2013-4) -V8.7.4.) [2497pts] ++
+ Lords +
Beastlord [248pts]: Shield
. Rules: Man-bane, Primal Fury
. Armour: Shield, Model: Beastlord, Weapon: Hand Weapon
. . Arcane and Enchanted Item: Crown of Command, Armour: armour of destiny , Talisman: Dragonbane Gem, Weapon: Biting Blade
+ Heroes +
Bray-Shaman [135pts]: Lore of Beasts, Wizard Level 2
. Model: Bray-Shaman, Weapon: Hand Weapon
. Magic Items: BRB - Dispel Scroll
Bray-Shaman [160pts]: Lore of Beasts, Wizard Level 2
. Magic Items: AB - Shard of the Herdstone
Gorebull [222pts]: Heavy Armour, Shield
. Rules: Bloodgreed, Fear, Frenzy, Impact Hits (D3)(FAQ'ed), Slaughterer's Call, Stomp
. Armour: Heavy Armour, Shield Weapon: Hand Weapon
. . Arcane and Enchanted Item: Ironcurse Icon, Talisman: Talisman of Preservation
Gorebull [215pts]: Additional Hand Weapon
. Rules: Bloodgreed, Fear, Frenzy, Impact Hits (D3)(FAQ'ed), Slaughterer's Call, Stomp
Weapon:Two/Additional Hand Weapons
. Magic Items: Armour of Silvered Steel, - Luckstone
Wargor [206pts]: Heavy Armour, Shield
. Rules: Man-bane, Primal Fury
. Armour: Heavy Armour, Shield, Model: Wargor, Weapon: Hand Weapon
. Battle Standard Bearer: AB - The Beast Banner
. . Magic Standard: The Beast Banner
. Magic Items: Gnarled Hide
+ Core +
Gor Herd [177pts]: Champion, Musician, Standard Bearer
. Rules: Beastmen Ambush, Primal Fury
. 19x Gor: 19x Additional Hand Weapon
Gor Herd [329pts]: Champion, Musician, Standard Bearer
. Rules: Beastmen Ambush, Primal Fury
. 38x Gor: 38x Additional Hand Weapon
Tuskgor Chariot [80pts]
Tuskgor Chariot [80pts]
+ Special +
Harpies (FAQ'ed) [55pts]: 5x Harpy
Minotaurs [295pts]
. Rules: Bloodgreed, Fear, Impact Hits (1)(FAQ'ed), Stomp
. Armour: Light Armour, Weapon: Hand Weapon
. 5x Minotaur: 5x Additional Hand Weapon
Minotaurs [295pts]
. Rules: Bloodgreed, Fear, Impact Hits (1)(FAQ'ed), Stomp
. Armour: Light Armour, Weapon: Hand Weapon
. 5x Minotaur: 5x Additional Hand Weapon
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Post by jukei on Feb 6, 2019 16:12:50 GMT
I think it 's also a cool list I suggest you to try .
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Post by jukei on Feb 6, 2019 17:44:45 GMT
Here we have a herstone less effective due two wizards instead of 3 - we don t have champion and standard bearer in a minotaur unit goodbye to Talisman Chalice of Dark Rain. goodbye some gors and Gorebull with 1+ rerollable but.....but... there is something knoffles will like....:-) BSB + Standard of beast. and for the ones who like symmetry.... we have -2 wizards -2 Gorebulls -2 Chariots -2 Units of Gors -2 Units of minotaurs -2 ( beastlord /wargor) core points are 666 ..the Beast ;-))))) If we are able to cast a signature spell on the gor...we can call it a day .. Gors St 5 and T5.. :-)
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