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Post by strutsagget on Oct 18, 2018 17:03:00 GMT
I played this list last night, and it felt pretty weak and lack of synergies.
High Elves
Loremaster: Dispel Scroll; Shield of the Merwyrm; Sword of Might 290
Noble: lance; Dragon armour; shield; Battle Standard; Elven Steed (Ithilmar barding); Ironcurse Icon 133
5 Ellyrian Reavers: musician 90
14 Silver Helms: High Helm; musician; standard bearer; shields 352
17 Phoenix Guard: Keeper of the Flame; musician; standard bearer 285
Great Eagle 50
1 200 points
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Post by strutsagget on Oct 18, 2018 17:05:12 GMT
Feels like I would rather have a level 4 with high and two bolt throwers. Not sure how to fit it.
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Post by Horace on Oct 19, 2018 8:38:34 GMT
If you went with a stock Lvl 3 Archmage and cut out the BSB (not essential at 1200 points imo) you would probably have enough points for a small second unit (Swordmasters or White Lions) and a Bolt Thrower. If you are going High Magic it feels worth opting Phoenix Guard to try for the 3++
1200 points always feels tough for Elves, everything is pricey so the game is very unforgiving
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Post by airjamy on Oct 19, 2018 12:21:10 GMT
14 silver helms feels like a ton. They are not going to break through most units due to steadfast, and do little damage after their charge with S3. I know it sounds cheesy, but having a Frostheart is really good in lower point values. A core of Reavers, with a wizard perhaps somewhere, a Frosty, and a combat core of Phoenix Guard sounds pretty good. Don't think you even need a noble with the Phoenix Guard, just have them as a mopping up force.
I also always dislike having multiple characters in games under 1500 pts, unless they are really cheap like Warlock Engineers, and bought with a very specific goal in mind. Just having boots on the ground is often really good in low points, i found.
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Post by sedge on Oct 19, 2018 12:51:37 GMT
If you knew the army you were facing, and are fine with list tailoring, then something like this could work: - Archmage, level 3, High Magic, Cloak of Beards, Golden Crown of Atrazar, Warrior Bane (210 points)
- 18 Archers, Musician (190 points)
- 5 Ellyrian Reavers, Musician, Spear & Bow (105 points)
- 5 Ellyrian Reavers, Musician, Spear & Bow (105 points)
- 21 Phoenix Guard, Full Command, Gleaming Pennant (350 points)
- Frostheart Phoenix (240 points)
That's incorporating Airjamy's suggestions, but with some archers in core to give you a decent ranged threat. I've put both spears and bows on the Reavers so they've got a chance of wounding things like a Gyro or tough Dwarves on the charge rather than just bouncing off them; the bows should plink off a wound or two when you're not able to get into combat.
The Archmage has the Cloak of Beards mainly to try and take out any runic items he comes up against, the Crown is a cheap ward save that's effectively an extra wound, and the weapon is just to fill points.
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Post by airjamy on Oct 19, 2018 14:35:41 GMT
If you knew the army you were facing, and are fine with list tailoring, then something like this could work: - Archmage, level 3, High Magic, Cloak of Beards, Golden Crown of Atrazar, Warrior Bane (210 points)
- 18 Archers, Musician (190 points)
- 5 Ellyrian Reavers, Musician, Spear & Bow (105 points)
- 5 Ellyrian Reavers, Musician, Spear & Bow (105 points)
- 21 Phoenix Guard, Full Command, Gleaming Pennant (350 points)
- Frostheart Phoenix (240 points)
That's incorporating Airjamy's suggestions, but with some archers in core to give you a decent ranged threat. I've put both spears and bows on the Reavers so they've got a chance of wounding things like a Gyro or tough Dwarves on the charge rather than just bouncing off them; the bows should plink off a wound or two when you're not able to get into combat.
The Archmage has the Cloak of Beards mainly to try and take out any runic items he comes up against, the Crown is a cheap ward save that's effectively an extra wound, and the weapon is just to fill points.
I like this, especially if you can find the 35 pts for lvl 4. That extra spell plus +1s really help. What does the cloak of beards do again, plus the other items? Do you want a magical weapon on a wizard.. ? |
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Post by sedge on Oct 19, 2018 15:35:44 GMT
Cloak of Beards means you cause Terror against Dwarves - that alone won't achieve much, but also at the start of each Combat phase, you roll a D6 for each magic item on an enemy model in base contact with the bearer, on a 4+ it's destroyed. That helps to negate the runes Dwarf characters tend to be loaded up with. However, Dwarves attacking the bearer gain Hatred.
The magic weapon is just to fill the 5 points left, if you wound a character, it loses an attack. Unlikely to do much.
The magic items could easily be trimmed down, plus drop a Phoenix Guard or two, to upgrade to various things like the Talisman of Preservation, Book of Hoeth, and/or level 4.
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Post by strutsagget on Oct 19, 2018 16:32:17 GMT
So I am thinking running it a total different way.
High Elves
Archmage: Level 4 Wizard; Dispel Scroll; Golden Crown of Atrazar 255
5 Ellyrian Reavers: musician; spears; bows 105
5 Ellyrian Reavers: musician; spears; bows 105
18 Archers: musician; standard bearer 200
24 White Lions of Chrace: Guardian; musician; standard bearer (Banner of the World Dragon) 392
Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower: 2 × Sea Guard Crew 70
Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower: 2 × Sea Guard Crew 70
1 197 points
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Post by livewaaaaagh on Oct 20, 2018 3:35:49 GMT
I like the list but am frankly a big fan of the Loremaster at these point levels. It’s a ton of spells and a lord level character for good points.
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Post by Horace on Oct 20, 2018 8:21:24 GMT
I mean it is a fairly power dirt list but it looks good  I would probably pick something like: Engineer Runesmith (breaker runes) 30 GW warriors Gyro Gyro 17 Ironbreakers (or something else here/Slayers if you fancy dodging the shooting and getting to the White Lions) Organ Gun Organ Gun (accuracy) |
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Post by airjamy on Oct 21, 2018 12:39:20 GMT
So I am thinking running it a total different way. High ElvesArchmage: Level 4 Wizard; Dispel Scroll; Golden Crown of Atrazar 2555 Ellyrian Reavers: musician; spears; bows 1055 Ellyrian Reavers: musician; spears; bows 10518 Archers: musician; standard bearer 20024 White Lions of Chrace: Guardian; musician; standard bearer (Banner of the World Dragon) 392Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower: 2 × Sea Guard Crew 70Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower: 2 × Sea Guard Crew 701 197 pointsLooks a lot better than the other list! It is quick, does a lot of shooting damage, and the Banner can be a total nightmare for opponents. Imagine fielding this against Daemons.. they just auto lose, whatever they bring. |
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Post by mottdon on Oct 23, 2018 15:52:17 GMT
So I am thinking running it a total different way. High ElvesArchmage: Level 4 Wizard; Dispel Scroll; Golden Crown of Atrazar 2555 Ellyrian Reavers: musician; spears; bows 1055 Ellyrian Reavers: musician; spears; bows 10518 Archers: musician; standard bearer 20024 White Lions of Chrace: Guardian; musician; standard bearer (Banner of the World Dragon) 392Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower: 2 × Sea Guard Crew 70Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower: 2 × Sea Guard Crew 701 197 pointsI actually don't like this one very much. I think the Lv4 on the Archmage is unnecessary. He'll already be casting at +4 since you'll be running High Magic. Very unlikely that you're opponent will be running a Lv4 as well at these point levels and even if he is, it'll be a wizard's dual anyway. Your core looks good, but I don't like the addition of White Lions. They make your army a glass cannon, with very weak Ld and no BSB. The Phoenix Guard were your anchor. The one element that could get you stuck in a fight and not totally deflate if you don't break your opponent after the initial combat. The Bolt Throwers are fine. They'll provide you with some good ranged firepower for those big nasties you don't really want to engage. |
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Post by strutsagget on Oct 23, 2018 19:11:57 GMT
So I am thinking running it a total different way. High ElvesArchmage: Level 4 Wizard; Dispel Scroll; Golden Crown of Atrazar 2555 Ellyrian Reavers: musician; spears; bows 1055 Ellyrian Reavers: musician; spears; bows 10518 Archers: musician; standard bearer 20024 White Lions of Chrace: Guardian; musician; standard bearer (Banner of the World Dragon) 392Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower: 2 × Sea Guard Crew 70Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower: 2 × Sea Guard Crew 701 197 pointsI actually don't like this one very much. I think the Lv4 on the Archmage is unnecessary. He'll already be casting at +4 since you'll be running High Magic. Very unlikely that you're opponent will be running a Lv4 as well at these point levels and even if he is, it'll be a wizard's dual anyway. Your core looks good, but I don't like the addition of White Lions. They make your army a glass cannon, with very weak Ld and no BSB. The Phoenix Guard were your anchor. The one element that could get you stuck in a fight and not totally deflate if you don't break your opponent after the initial combat. The Bolt Throwers are fine. They'll provide you with some good ranged firepower for those big nasties you don't really want to engage. Well, it is easier to say you don't like then wwhat you do like  at the lower point I find it very hard to get a full likable list that has game. The problem with only PG is no hammer and really no way of winning. I think I rather have a great hammer and no anvil then just an anvil and no hammer. Unless I run dwarfs? But that is just theory and I am probably wrong. |
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Post by mottdon on Oct 23, 2018 21:59:39 GMT
The last time I ran a unit of 25 PG, they took down a unit of 4 Juggernauts, and then a horde of Warriors! They're no slouches! Besides, if you were to swap out one of your spells for say....Wildform? You'd have all the ability of a White Lion, plus rerolls to hit, plus a survivable unit..... PG are the best unit HE have in my opinion. They've never failed me.
I think so many players think that all offense is the way to win Warhammer games. I prefer the long game and stacking my deck. To each his own though!
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Post by livewaaaaagh on Oct 23, 2018 22:10:01 GMT
Like I said before, I think a Loremaster is a win at these levels. Few opponents will bring a lvl 4 at 1200.
I also like Phoenix Guard better - i’m Also a fan of Swordmaster, personally. But PG are great!
You could bring some Silver Helm to add the flanking hammer to the Phoenix Giard.
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at the lower point I find it very hard to get a full likable list that has game.