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Post by NIGHTBRINGER on Mar 30, 2019 21:34:20 GMT
The idea of these polls is to compare two similar Chaos Dwarf units head to head. The units may be similar in terms of function, unit type, battlefield roll, etc. The objective is to compare the units in terms of game play performance. So try not to include aesthetic, lore/fluff or model preferences in your decision. Simply which of the two units would you most often choose if you were building a competitive list?
The battle of chaff, Hobgoblin Wolf Riders vs. Hobgoblin Khan
Which do you like better and for what reasons?
Vote and discuss!
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Post by strutsagget on Mar 31, 2019 6:50:31 GMT
So I really love the khans. But I feel I am always out placed. So currently testing wolf riders to get more drops. Will come back when I have more games with them. The same reason goes for the Hellcannon over WMs.
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Post by NIGHTBRINGER on Mar 31, 2019 14:55:30 GMT
For me it is a tough decision as both units have their advantages. The Hobgoblin Wolf Raiders obviously have more numbers, so they come out on top in terms of wounds and attacks. On the other hand, the Khan is a bit cheaper and does not suffer from Animosity.
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Post by grandmasterwang on Apr 2, 2019 7:26:37 GMT
I lean towards the Khan due to base size and access to items.
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Post by NIGHTBRINGER on Apr 2, 2019 14:24:35 GMT
I lean towards the Khan due to base size and access to items. What items do you typically give him? |
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Post by strutsagget on Apr 3, 2019 5:43:07 GMT
I run my khans just vanilla light armor, spear and wolf. In this way the are strong enough to kill WMs and cheap enough to be throwed away as chaff.
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Post by NIGHTBRINGER on Apr 4, 2019 4:59:34 GMT
I run my khans just vanilla light armor, spear and wolf. In this way the are strong enough to kill WMs and cheap enough to be throwed away as chaff. That makes sense. That is how I'd run them as well. Investing magic item points in them seems like it would only reduce their optimization as chaff. I'd love to know if anyone has some really cheap magic item combinations that work well though. |
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Post by strutsagget on Apr 4, 2019 5:02:33 GMT
I run my khans just vanilla light armor, spear and wolf. In this way the are strong enough to kill WMs and cheap enough to be throwed away as chaff. That makes sense. That is how I'd run them as well. Investing magic item points in them seems like it would only reduce their optimization as chaff. I'd love to know if anyone has some really cheap magic item combinations that work well though. I think there are two setup with magic weapons in the hobo khan thread copied from chaosdwarfs.com. I have never used them though so can’t argue for their value. |
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Post by sedge on Apr 5, 2019 7:38:44 GMT
I think the Khan is more effective on the tabletop, plus more efficient points-wise - but before the game has started, the regular Wolf Riders are much more useful in the deployment phase to get extra drops. That's particularly the case as Chaos Dwarves are an elite low-unit count, and slow army who can't afford to be out-deployed. If you're castling that's less relevant, because then your deployment is determined more by terrain than your opponent's set-up.
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Post by grandmasterwang on Apr 18, 2019 6:25:59 GMT
I lean towards the Khan due to base size and access to items. What items do you typically give him? First of all I agree that it's best to keep Khan's cheap and use them as throwaway units. However I like the flexibility and potential for trickery that their 25 point magic item limit gives them. There is no typical but I am partial to the 5 point potion of foolhardiness. It's versatile as the devastating charge can help offensively but the main reason I like it is what I call the 'guaranteed block'. For a mere 5 points you can ensure your noble Khan successfully blocks/redirects an extremely dangerous terror causing monster such as a Stegadon or Warsphinx (or Kdaii Destroyer in a head to head) or the like rather than flee in terror and open up the charge. With Wolf riders there is always the chance they will fail their terror test and let you down when they are most needed to block the enemy and potentially cost you the game. The foolhardy Khan removes this risk and can be relied upon to block that crucial monster charge with 100% certainty. A potion of strength (expensive at 20 points) can pay off given the speed of the wolf as the Khan has passable initiative and can make strength 8 attacks on the charge for 1 round. It can be the difference in killing a character or Warmachine or doing some surprising damage to a monster (Terrorgheist for example where the wounds really count) which can outweigh the points outlay. This is best used when facing a 'common' opponent to keep them guessing, as the next time they see an 'innocent' looking khan facing off against something far more valuable they can be wary thinking it may once again be packing the potion of strength...or maybe it's just stock.  It's one of the few ways the LOA can be tricky and the Khan is one of the only things that can support a Destroyer. Occasionally also one of the 5point shield options can be worthwhile if not being used on other heroes in the army. Basically the very cheap item options with the exception of the Potion of Strength are all potentials. I really rate the Potion of Foolhardiness though, as it's viable on both offense and defence and only 1 point more than a spear! |
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Post by NIGHTBRINGER on Apr 18, 2019 6:31:45 GMT
What items do you typically give him? First of all I agree that it's best to keep Khan's cheap and use them as throwaway units. However I like the flexibility and potential for trickery that their 25 point magic item limit gives them. There is no typical but I am partial to the 5 point potion of foolhardiness. It's versatile as the devastating charge can help offensively but the main reason I like it is what I call the 'guaranteed block'. For a mere 5 points you can ensure your noble Khan successfully blocks/redirects an extremely dangerous terror causing monster such as a Stegadon or Warsphinx (or Kdaii Destroyer in a head to head) or the like rather than flee in terror and open up the charge. With Wolf riders there is always the chance they will fail their terror test and let you down when they are most needed to block the enemy and potentially cost you the game. The foolhardy Khan removes this risk and can be relied upon to block that crucial monster charge with 100% certainty. A potion of strength (expensive at 20 points) can pay off given the speed of the wolf as the Khan has passable initiative and can make strength 8 attacks on the charge for 1 round. It can be the difference in killing a character or Warmachine or doing some surprising damage to a monster (Terrorgheist for example where the wounds really count) which can outweigh the points outlay. This is best used when facing a 'common' opponent to keep them guessing, as the next time they see an 'innocent' looking khan facing off against something far more valuable they can be wary thinking it may once again be packing the potion of strength...or maybe it's just stock. It's one of the few ways the LOA can be tricky and the Khan is one of the only things that can support a Destroyer. Occasionally also one of the 5point shield options can be worthwhile if not being used on other heroes in the army. Basically the very cheap item options with the exception of the Potion of Strength are all potentials. I really rate the Potion of Foolhardiness though, as it's viable on both offense and defence and only 1 point more than a spear! I really like those ideas. Definitely gives the little guy quite a bit of flexibility. |
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Post by strutsagget on Apr 18, 2019 7:10:05 GMT
Good to remember is that khan loose the fast cavalry rule if you add shields.
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Post by Horace on Apr 18, 2019 10:52:25 GMT
I think lone Khans are probably the better option tactically. Wolf Riders themselves are not actually especially cheap and come from the Rare allocation. I think a Khan gives you a bit more flexibility and can be tooled for something besides dying. Having said all that I will probably always field Wolf Riders just because it is nicer thematically |
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Post by strutsagget on Apr 18, 2019 11:47:34 GMT
Having used wolf-riders last 4 games I must admit I love having the drops.
I think khans coming from hero section hurts as much as wolfs coming from rare.
One castellon and a deamonsmith usually fill up the hero section pretty fast. If running a tauruk there is no room for the khans.
Last little(1200p) game (big loss against Lizzie’s) I had 5 points left in hero section and 200p left in rare.
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Post by Horace on Apr 18, 2019 12:54:50 GMT
I would say 1200 points is not a very typical game though, it is particularly small and you almost have to reconsider tactics entirely |
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It's one of the few ways the LOA can be tricky and the Khan is one of the only things that can support a Destroyer.