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Post by azknight on Jun 22, 2019 2:43:47 GMT
Like many of you, I regularly shop and browse for miniatures to increase the ranks of my Warhammer armies. I always enjoy discovering new miniature producers, and new miniatures from familiar producers. While I enjoy looking at all minis, the trend to push for finer and finer details into miniature sculpting has certainly caught my eye. However, I was recently involved in a purchase decision between 2-3 different producers. One of the options was with a newer line that had very highly detailed models. Another line had very low detail, comparatively. The third line would sort out as medium detailed models. I found it interesting that I ended up going with the medium-detailed models, when you might predict I would go with the highest detailed models. To me it was the Goldilocks solution. I'm sure the different artistic interpretations of the models I was looking for also factored in my decision. But, I remember that the amount of detail in the models weighed heavily on my decision.
Since then, I have reflected upon why I didn't choose the highest detailed models. I'm starting this thread to see if anyone has thought about this before. What are your preferences? Any reasons for your preference? Is there a Warhammer edition or producer that is your Goldilocks? Or, do you like to be on the cutting edge of the hobby?
Clearly, painting on canvas has gone through a similar evolution. Some painters push for the highest amount of life-like detail in a subject. Some prefer minimal resolution, allowing the viewer's mind and life experiences to fill in the details.
My opinion: The new models look amazing and I appreciate how far the hobby has progressed. I love seeing what highly talented sculptors and painters can do, that stretches beyond my abilities. I may be interested in trying to paint such a showcase model once in a while. But, probably with 90% of my models, I am looking for that Goldilocks amount of detail. I actually like a slightly vague appearance to armies. It allows for a little imagination, and it reminds me that the models are simply just models. They are hand-painted figures that belong to a game. I have no desire for them to be anything more than that. To me, that makes them cool. Their combination of perfections and imperfections make them look cool. After I finish every model, I find features that I think couldn't have been better, and other features that I would probably change if I did it again. But, like or dislike them, I let them stand as they are. I rarely rework a paint job. I think the higher detailed models wouldn't mesh with my mindset or the rest of the models of my armies. The time requirement also plays a big part for me. I'm already a slower than average painter. More details=more time. I'm in the middle of building 5 armies. Enough said.
Your opinion?
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Post by knoffles on Jun 22, 2019 9:53:54 GMT
I’m generally of a similar opinion. I find that if a model is too detailed it can put me off buying it. This normally because I can’t be dealing with all the detail when painting it as it’s my least favourite part of the hobby and with my ‘that’ll do’ attitude to painting I don’t feel I’ll do them justice. I also find it daunting to paint highly detailed models and (or even models I want to add detail to). It one of the reasons my Bretonnians are in a box! I really like the newer Avatars of War dwarf lords but the detail puts me off.
Conversely, if it is a large plastic multi part model, that definitely appeals to me as I love building them. The Lizardmen monsters have been great for that and it has in turn really inspired me to fly through painting them.
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Mallo
Full Member
Posts: 244
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Post by Mallo on Jun 22, 2019 11:38:31 GMT
When I was a lot younger, I always wanted to see models push for more details. As much as I like painting, I've never really been what you could call and 'army painter', always preferring to individuals models over units or batch painting. More details = better value to me back then! In the years since (mostly due to playing in 6mm a lot more) I've gotten back to wanting to paint huge armies and the detail on the newer models kills me every time! Especially since I feel I've paid for it, I want to paint it to the best of my ability!
For instance, ignoring the size difference between the two and just looking at the details, I brought the AoS Ironclad model just after release. That thing is covered in dials, globes, readout displays, buttons, hooks, glyphs. The thing is still sitting there after all this time, no where near finished because every time I get one section finished, I spot another set of details that need painting. Even the crew men are covered in belt buckles and spanners and rivets and more details. Think it took me a whole evening just to finish painting the lenses on the gunners helmet! Lovely model, will probably take me another several years to be able to power through it to a finished state.
compared to the 6th edition version of the goblin big boss I just painted. I'm a slow painter by most standards, but this model just painted itself. I've spent a good couple of days painting one goblin before, but this one painted up in just a few hours, it almost painted itself! It's got a decent amount of details that make him stand out over the rest of the troops, but nothing so complicated that a wash and a drybrush cant deal with most of the work! He even has a full set of nic naks on his belt, just like the crew of the ironclad, but not one of them caused me enough problems that I had to go back over and paint around it to cover up any of the mistakes I made trying to paint such small details! Each one is well defined, more of an impression of a detail rather than a true likeness.
I think I like details on models as I feel I'm really getting my moneys worth, as I'm more of a painter than I have ever been a gamer. But half of that is because I spend so long painting details, I don't get things ready quick enough to be able to game more often!
I think there is a sweet spot for most large army models. You need enough details on them that a wash and dry brushing *can* take care of painting batches quickly (if that is your chosen method of painting of course) but simple enough that you can skimp on needing to paint four sets of highlights and a glaze on each and every button and crease in a shirt!
I do think as the industry has been able to improve the quality of the model making process has helped contribute to this, models have gotten more details as they have pushed the tech out. But this has probably slowed down the painting of huge armies! Which is why you have companies now trying to release highly detailed miniatures but get people painting faster and not worry about all the details! (Think the contrast from citadel!) because slow painting means less models being brought!
Too many details can be restrictive as well though. I love converting and making each model I can as individual as I can, but I'm finding it harder to do so with newer GW models than with older ones. I've been making up a nurgle warband from 40k models for use in fantasy and some of them are just too much effort to use or so detailed that there's nothing I could really do with them in the first place. There is also less space on modern minis for freehand, which is great as I suck at freehand, but also bad as I'm not going to improve with out practice and with out space to play with, there is very little point in pushing myself with it.
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Post by mottdon on Jun 22, 2019 12:07:19 GMT
Ooooh. I think that this is a context question for me.
If you're talking about rank and file, then medium will usually be fine (I consider GW slightly above medium and AoW non-characters medium), but for characters or large, stand alone monsters, I expect a high level of detail. I'm willing to put more of my time and effort into those models because they will bring more attention and usually be the focus of most battles. Certain units will Garner more attention that others as well, (White Lions over Spearmen, or Stormvermin over Clanrats) so I will tend to be more careful with them as well. For models that I plan on letting my kids play with (keeping them off my nicer models) or just those "I may use once in my lifetime" models, I'll tend to go with lower quality (Reaper) models.
Price also plays a huge part of my decision process. Forge World or Table Top World miniatures are rarely in my price range. While I would LOVE being able to own many of those models, it's usually something I simply cannot justify purchasing, over say, a new set of shoes for my kids. And it's almost always an either/or situation.
Lastly, it also comes down to the dynamics of the model. I usually prefer poses that convey a story, instead of huge monopose units. They simply feel more alive to me. I also think that this is one way GW is staying ahead of the pack. Not only have they evolved from the monopose sculpts, they also provide the owner many, many option as to how they build them. I think the Wildwood Rangers are a good example of this. Sure, they all have great weapons, but each one of them holds the weapon differently. When looking at them next to a similar unit, they will seem to have an edge in style, even though you may not be totally sure why. And it's not just 2 or 3 different poses, but the entire 10 models of the box! Once other companies catch up with these distinctions, and use the same or equivalent plastic molding processes that GW does, that's when we'll see the true decline of GW's monopoly.
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Post by mottdon on Jun 22, 2019 12:39:48 GMT
I agree with what Mallo says about the high amount of details on GW models (I don't think that other companies come close to their level of details) but I think that they count on this. Kit bashing is an inevitable part of the hobby, and the more details they put on a model, the less likely it will be adapted to fit multiple armies/situations, which, in turn, means more sells for GW. It's all about the bottom dollar.
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Post by sedge on Jun 22, 2019 17:30:26 GMT
GW models have definitely got more detailed, and that obviously means they'll normally take longer to paint. I'll buy models I like even if I know they'll be a bugger to paint - but yes, something like the new plastic Lord of Change I know is going to sit in my collection unpainted for years, as there's just so much ornate detail on it to pick out - it'd take me months to do, whereas the older ones would actually have been quite quick to get done. Would I prefer the more basic one? No, but because I'm a sucker for buying more models, I'd probably take both  Some of it can be mitigated with a more basic paint job - and still look good. For example, my edge-highlighted Chaos Warriors (2004 kit) took far, far longer to paint than my Dwarf Ironbreakers (2014 kit) because I went with a much simpler paintjob that involved drybrushing most the armour. |
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Post by Naitsabes on Jun 22, 2019 17:40:43 GMT
I like details...as long as they make sense on the model (There can be too much skull incrustations etc.). If you don't want to put in the effort a simple wash takes care of things and will look decent from a couple feet away. The other thing is keeping in mind where the details are. Applying all these layers and glazes and highlights to the gem in the armpit nobody will ever see is not a good use of your time. Work smart, not hard!
That being said, occasionally I paint old old GW norse and barbarians. Virtually no details on there and I found myself experimenting with stripey pants, swirly jacket rims and the like. so...maybe for amount of details that most important truth applies: 'variety is the spice of life'?
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Post by Horace on Jun 22, 2019 19:03:34 GMT
I think the overall pose and look of the model is more important to me. I love a lot of the old 4th and 5th edition models where they were less detailed but I prefer the overall aesthetic. Also as others have said, you don't need loads and loads of detail on a zombie which you have to paint 100 of.
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Post by strutsagget on Jun 22, 2019 19:50:49 GMT
For me it’s about how the details are in the model. I want clear details when doing RnF. I want to spend as little time as possible figuring out what’s what on the model. I also prefer details that you can see from 0.5-1m away. Centerpieces of course can have more.
If I compare chaos dwarfs manufacturers I was really surprised with lost kingdom (still in my painting queue) the details are so easy to see that I really look forward to paint them. Compared to FW and alternative.
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Post by gangland on Jun 23, 2019 0:36:58 GMT
I’d like more detail but since I too am slow with the painting medium is more my speed.
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Post by grandmasterwang on Jun 25, 2019 2:38:51 GMT
For characters I'll take the extra detail.
For monsters I like both. It's easier to jump into painting a less detailed mini.
For units I prefer less details now. I don't want to be picking out gemstones and fancy satchells etc on some guy who will be no. 19.
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