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Post by DiscoQing on Dec 23, 2019 1:49:06 GMT
These chariots fire their pew Pew like cannons.
But are chariots.
What's stopping me issuing a stand and shoot option as a charge reaction?
The same could be said of a Hellcannon (unit type: Monster)
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Post by vulcan on Dec 23, 2019 2:02:23 GMT
Don't they have the 'slow to fire' rule?
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Post by midnightfox0083 on Dec 23, 2019 2:07:44 GMT
Both the Hellcannon and Skullcannon say to fire using the normal rules of a Stone Thrower and Cannon respectively. Both of these weapons have the Slow to Fire rule as per BRB. pg 109 and thus cannot declare a Stand and Fire. Unsure on the Ogre ones, but I believe theirs are worded similarly.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Dec 23, 2019 8:59:53 GMT
There is a difference between the rules for the war machine troop type and the rules for how each specific type war machine fires. The "Slow to Fire" special rule pertains to the war machine troop type, and thus does not automatically affect Chariots or Monsters with weapons that just fire like war machines.
However, in the case of the Hellcannon, Slow to Fire is in fact a special rule for the Doomfire weapon (v. its profile WoC p. 42). This is not true for the Ogre weapons, but this was corrected by
Ogre Kingdoms Official Update Version 1.1 p.2:
Q: Do the Scraplauncher Catapult, Cannon of the Sky-titans and Sphere of Frost-wreathed Ice have the Slow to Fire special rule? In
addition, can ward saves from the Ironcurse Icon be taken against Wounds caused by these weapons? (p49, 51, 55)
A: Yes to both questions.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Dec 23, 2019 10:53:40 GMT
I forgot about the Skull Cannon. As it happens, the Skull Cannon (as well as the Soul Grinder)does not have the Slow to Fire rule in its profile, nor has this been corrected by the last DoC Upgrade Version. On the other hand, the Slow to Fire special rule is contained in the profile of the Burning Chariot of Tzeentch. Rules as currently written, the first two would be able to stand and shoot. That said, I personally would bring them in line with the other weapons mentioned and not apply it.
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Post by midnightfox0083 on Dec 23, 2019 15:13:57 GMT
There is a difference between the rules for the war machine troop type and the rules for how each specific type war machine fires. The "Slow to Fire" special rule pertains to the war machine troop type To get technical, no it doesn't. Pg. 109 gives it to war machine weapons, not the entire unit type. They even repeatedly say "war machine weapons" in the section as opposed to the rest of the war machine section which constantly uses just "war machine". It very much reads as them not wanting to put the two rules on each statline of the weapons. If the Skannon didn't have the rules of a normal cannon(Move or Fire, Slow to Fire), then the rule allowing it to move and fire sure is needless. Between calling out that it fires as a normal cannon(which has the rules because pg. 109 gives the rule to warmachine weapons specifically) and giving it a rule allowing it to move and fire, I think there's plenty of support for it having those rules, personally. |
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Dec 23, 2019 16:52:54 GMT
BRB p. 108: "The first part of rules pertains to the rules for the war machine troop type — essentially its chassis and crew — which apply to all war machines. The second part consists of the rules for how each specific type war machine fires (and how it slaughters your foe)."
The first part consists of pp. 108-110, and the second of pp. 111-115.
That said, the solution can be found in the erratum I forgot about (BRB Official Update Version 1.9, p.4) that changes BRB p. 109:
"Unless specified otherwise, all war machines weapons have the Move or Fire and Slow to Fire special rules"
into:
“Unless specified otherwise, all weapons in this section (and all other weapons mounted on war machines) have the Move or Fire and Slow to Fire special rules.”
Edit: A war machine weapon means exactly that: a war machine weapon, i.e. a weapon mounted on a war machine, not on a monster or a chariot. The erratum means that the two special rules still apply to all war machine weapons, but also to the "weapons in this section" as such, i.e. not necessarily mounted on a war machine.
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