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Post by cheesedoodle666 on Apr 18, 2020 15:51:57 GMT
Hey guys I haven’t played in year and wanna get back into 8th ED. I’m pretty torn between Dwarves/ Chaos Dwarves/ VC. What are the pros and cons. I also would like a competitive army. Also I live in NYC so any groups out there?!
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Post by Horace on Apr 19, 2020 11:20:33 GMT
My advice is to always pick the army you can be bothered painting, otherwise it is a chore.
Not sure how detailed you want this - for more in depth advice I would see the tactica section.
Dwarfs have a nice balanced book with a few options to play, but essentially they are slow and shooty and are stubborn fighters when you get to combat. Basically no magic phase though.
Vampires are very magic based and are something of a meat grinder. Their core troops are awful but can keep coming back from the dead wave after wave. Strong heroes/lords.
Chaos Dwarfs are the least competitive of the above choices I would say. They are expensive elites and are also expensive to actually buy. Strong war machines, strong magic, they are generally strong across the board (if a little slow) but they come at a very expensive price point-wise which makes army composition crucial
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Post by sedge on Apr 19, 2020 14:46:29 GMT
They're all slow armies - that can be frustrating particulalry if you're new to the game (not sure if you are or not?).
I'd recommend Vampire Counts as the army with the most options, but more importantly the most current model availability. Most units in the army book are still available (aside from special characters) and there are plenty of excellent alternatives out there for things like Zombies or Varghulfs.
You don't get any shooting, but you've got extremely powerful magic, some massive tarpit hordes plus some big gribbly heavy-hitters and amongst the best characters in the game. Some of your units can be fast too - you're still better off than the stunties.
Dwarves have had several of their key units dropped by GW. Chaos Dwarves are the most expensive army to collect.
It's hard to give more advice without knowing a bit more about what you're looking for in an army - is it just competitiveness?
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Post by cheesedoodle666 on Apr 19, 2020 23:23:10 GMT
Thanks for the replies!! And with much thought I'm gonna go with VC! Not only looking for competitiveness, but fun and big selection of stuff which VC has. Also instead of GW zombies that look like trash imo, I'm gonna get Kings of War Undead Gravestalker Horde.
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Help!
Apr 20, 2020 9:39:01 GMT
Post by sedge on Apr 20, 2020 9:39:01 GMT
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Post by strutsagget on Apr 20, 2020 15:09:25 GMT
Maybe the other New Yorkers can guide you on if there is something seldom played or not collected by the others @raphtop75 KevinC
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Post by livewaaaaagh on Apr 21, 2020 14:29:04 GMT
Maybe the other New Yorkers can guide you on if there is something seldom played or not collected by the others @raphtop75 KevinC did someone call? I saw the Bat-Sign in the sky and immediately marched in this direction without testing,but I'm only movement 3 so it took some time. In NYC, there are 2 of us that played regularly pre-quarantine plus KevinC who joins when he can. There's also another new guy in Brooklyn who had just received his models (he had moved and and had left his models back at his old place) at the end of last year. I own Lizardmen, Tomb Kings, Dwarfs and Wood Elves. Other guy I play with regularly has High Elves, O&Gs and Dwarfs. KevinC has Goblins New Brooklyn guy has Lizardmen. Then we regularly play with people in east PA as part of tournaments. rahotep75 is one of them - he has Ogres, Skaven and Chaos. The other players in the group there play High Elves, Chaos, Dwarfs, Ogres, Lizardmen, Skaven and I'm sure I'm missing a few. So Chaos Dwarfs or VC would be the best options if you wanted something unique. But it always comes down to A) what models/lore do you find most interesting. At the end of the day,you need to paint these dudes. VC in particular, be ready to paint 50+ Zombies and 50+ Skeletons at a bare minimum. Whereas as Dwarfs and Chaos Dwarves are more elite in nature and don't have that many models. Then B) look at what is available and $$$. VC & Dwarfs will be easierto find than Chaos Dwarves. Hope that helps!
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Post by cheesedoodle666 on Apr 21, 2020 22:08:00 GMT
ok cool that's good to know there are some players out here in nyc. im still a bit torn between CD and VC... I love both lores and iv e found some great recast or even alts to CDs which aren't crazy $$$. also how is Nurgle? I've always loved tough grotesque deamons and I have a few of the models from cos but put them on square bases
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Post by strutsagget on Apr 22, 2020 5:19:11 GMT
ok cool that's good to know there are some players out here in nyc. im still a bit torn between CD and VC... I love both lores and iv e found some great recast or even alts to CDs which aren't crazy $$$. also how is Nurgle? I've always loved tough grotesque deamons and I have a few of the models from cos but put them on square bases Deamons are good. I don’t think you need to worry about power level. I am very sure all the NYs will alter their list to make fun games if needed. Pick army after what you like the most esthetically and economy. Fluff is everything in warhammer, and some beer. And every army has at least one power build. Personally I quote mottdon on this: I love new comers, make me allowed to pick up that favorite model on the shelf that seldom sees play, because of power level, and try to win with it.
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Help!
Apr 22, 2020 10:45:09 GMT
via mobile
Post by mottdon on Apr 22, 2020 10:45:09 GMT
I agree with much of what was said here.
VC are a grind army. Don't expect there to be a lot of movement and action with them. They also require you to know other armies strengths and weaknesses quite well. (This will come with time.) You'll need to know which army units to push your horses of zombies at (tarpit - meaning they get stuck in close combat and it takes forever to get out, if they can) and which units to Target with your hard-hitters (Vampires).
*A word of warning* - VC has what is considered one of the top broken units in the game - Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon. While most opponents won't mind you playing him every now and then, they won't want to play you if you take him every game, so I wouldn't recommend building your army around him.
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Help!
Apr 22, 2020 15:09:35 GMT
Post by sedge on Apr 22, 2020 15:09:35 GMT
I'm not sure I'd agree the Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon is broken. It is undoubtedly one of the most powerful single models in the whole of Warhammer, but it has a points cost to match. A kitted out Vampire Lord is around 500 points before you mount him, and with a Zombie Dragon is pretty much 750 points. That limits you to games of 3,000 points or higher* where he will be your only Lord in an army whose Lords are far more important to them than for anyone else, and he's as vulnerable to a cannon shot as any other monster-mounted character. In a 3,000 point game, your opponent will have tools to take down that Vampire Lord (unless they're Beastmen -- sorry). If you lose your Vampire Lord, your army is crumbling, and your crucially important magic phase becomes a hell of a lot harder. Vampire Lords tend to be much better off safe in a bunker of cavalry or infantry.
*Unless using End Times 50% Lords/Heroes allowances. In that case, yes - do not take him to a 1,500 points game or your opponent will HATE you.
I agree with Mottdon that you shouldn't build your army around one, as that will restrict you to massive games, which aren't ideal when you're getting started with an army.
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Post by tileag on Apr 22, 2020 16:12:15 GMT
(unless they're Beastmen -- sorry). I. ...primal fury intensifies
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