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Post by grandmasterwang on Apr 27, 2020 13:32:37 GMT
I'm not wrong though, haha. Maybe shoot the beasts up the ladder, but they'd still be relatively rubbish. Let's playtest it. The other way to do it would be to drop all non characters points by 50%. 8 points for a 2 wound, ws4, t4 gor with primal fury and 2 attacks..... strength 4 with the beast banner..... Would be hands down the best core unit in the game. The Beastmen dream of rampaging out of the forest destroying everything in their path would finally become a reality! .... maybe if Matt Ward wrote the book ... |
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Post by tileag on Apr 27, 2020 16:26:33 GMT
Gors, Centigors, and Bestigors with 2 wounds would vastly improve beastmen. I still think just addressing the army book weaknesses would do wonders for them (maybe adding a new unit or two as well, at least one in core)
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Post by DiscoQing on Apr 27, 2020 16:29:22 GMT
Try it out - I tried the 50% points reduction one, and still lost games.
There are still better fighters 😊
We added comp, like max 4 of each chariot, capped unit sizes to 60 etc.
It made our local meta change up our lists, was good fun/a challenge.
our local dwarf player decided flame cannons were the answer, something that is rarely taken hehe
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Post by strutsagget on Apr 27, 2020 16:35:05 GMT
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Post by sedge on Apr 27, 2020 16:49:18 GMT
The simplest solution to making them less terrible is using the Legions of Chaos list. You get marks, better Ambush, and access to units like Chaos Trolls, Dragon Ogres and Shaggoths that fit with the Beastmen vibe. It doesn't fix all their issues, but every army has some crap units.
The other easy fix would be to reduce the cost of their Rare monsters to 225 points. Legions of Chaos + cheaper rare monsters should move them to at least non-shit tier.
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Post by tileag on Apr 27, 2020 17:28:08 GMT
Ive looked at this before as im a fan of the warhammer armies project. I think this does improve beastmen but i have not yet tried the book in a game. |
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Post by grandmasterwang on Apr 27, 2020 17:32:10 GMT
Try it out - I tried the 50% points reduction one, and still lost games. There are still better fighters 😊 We added comp, like max 4 of each chariot, capped unit sizes to 60 etc. It made our local meta change up our lists, was good fun/a challenge. our local dwarf player decided flame cannons were the answer, something that is rarely taken hehe I already play custom Beastmen with new additions and some tweaks and are happy with them. I wouldn't be adverse to trying 50% points discount or 2 wound Beastmen (i remember when Beastmen actually had 2 wounds way back in the day) in certain environments but we already have a system that works great for us. Out of curiosity, which core (or otherwise) troops would you consider to be fighters than 4(or 5?) point AHW gor? Every gaming group is different and I'm very fortunate to have a lot of influence with the people I play with (not that I'm playing at all at the moment .....blasted Nurgle Covid!) All our games are very well balanced and usually come right down to the wire. We've had several games come down to 1 sole survivor left on the table with 1 wound remaining and you can't get any closer than that. We aren't trying to break the game though and are trying to have awesome, fun games which works well for us. Other units (such as a WoC Daemon Prince) have nerfs though so we aren't playing Warhammer fantasy straight out of the book really. Imo Warhammer Fantasy 8th edition is the very best and most immersive Fantasy battle tabletop simulator and I treat it as a toolbox to adjust and tweak as desired. I played a bit more competetively back in the day but now i'm all about creating awesome battle experiences and tabletop memories. (Yes that is a High Elf chariot charging Captain Lysander from 40k)  |
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Post by tileag on Apr 27, 2020 17:42:26 GMT
Actually now that im thinking about it, i did play a game against someone with the Warhammer armies project beastmen list. I really liked the inclusion of Bestigors with halberds
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Post by DiscoQing on Apr 27, 2020 18:44:01 GMT
(i remember when Beastmen actually had 2 wounds way back in the day) Yeah me too, that why we used it in our group, it made sense in a weird way - also gave the monsters more of chance vs cannons. Out of curiosity, which core (or otherwise) troops would you consider to be fighters than 4(or 5?) point AHW gor? I wasn't talking about just core units, I'd say many. They can't all attack, won't kill much even if they could - and They die very easily. Swordmasters, Hammerers and Temple Guard? These are just the infantry, lol! But if we're talking Core choices, it'd be Ogres (Bulls and Guts), Chaos Warriors, Forsaken, Saurus, Nurgle Daemons? - (again this is just the infantry). I haven't looked at points, mind. The gor would have bigger units at 5pts/model, doesn't mean they're better fighters though. |
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Yvain
Full Member
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Post by Yvain on Apr 27, 2020 22:54:34 GMT
5 point AHW Gors would be pretty awesome. 40 of them would just be 200 point with 2 attacks with potential hatred and T4 for protection that could be devastating.
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Post by tileag on Apr 28, 2020 1:58:58 GMT
What about keeping gors at their cost, but upping their strength to S4. They would be good, but still have little to no saves
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Apr 28, 2020 7:11:29 GMT
Obviously, Empire is the best army, because we have the biggest moustaches and codpieces. Indeed, our SC are so awesome, they are not allowed to carry shields....
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beastyboy
Full Member
5th eddition lizardmen !
Posts: 198
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Post by beastyboy on Apr 28, 2020 9:41:51 GMT
strength four gors would be fun also better ld bestigor 8 wargor 9 beastlord 10 ...
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Post by tileag on May 4, 2020 17:11:23 GMT
strength four gors would be fun also better ld bestigor 8 wargor 9 beastlord 10 ... Bestigors at ld 8 makes so much sense. Great bray shaman at 9, Beastlord at ld10 as well, i dont think anyone would argue that beastmen would all of a sudden become OP with those stats. |
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Post by sedge on May 4, 2020 17:56:18 GMT
They wouldn't be OP, but it wouldn't fit with the fluff of what Beastmen are. Leadership is a measure of how "courageous, determined, and self-controlled" a model is (WFB rulebook quote) and lower values aren't just due to cowardice - they're due to being "unruly" too*. Beastmen are the very definition of unruly.
Ld 10 is reserved for only the bravest, most intelligent, and disciplined leaders - centuries old Dawi Lords, Elven Princes, Tomb Kings and Vampire Counts. Beastlords, like Orc Warbosses, Empire Generals, Ogre Tyrants and even Slann Mage-Priests, don't fit in that group.
Beastmen definitely need improving, but Leadership is not one of the appropriate areas for it. Or their stats for the most part; it's points, options and army make-up that need reviewing.
*Reflected in things like testing Leadership for marching close to enemy units, restraining pursuit, or frenzied units not charging.
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