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Post by strutsagget on May 5, 2020 8:50:07 GMT
So as I am getting closer to start painting my high elves army I wonder where to begin.
What high elves units do people think make fun games?
Do people hate playing against a horde of Phoenix Guard?
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Post by Horace on May 5, 2020 9:12:25 GMT
I don't think there's anything wrong with a horde of Phoenix Guard, it depends if you turn it into a 1 unit game by piling in all your characters, mages and BoTWD as well.
In my opinion there aren't necessarily units you should avoid for fun games, you should just avoid cheesing really hard - but this again depends on your gaming group, some groups enjoy coming up with the dirtiest cheese they can possibly imagine.
Just pick the units you like and go with it and disregard if they are suboptimal or not
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Post by DiscoQing on May 5, 2020 9:54:56 GMT
Just always take BotWD, and ensure your opponent knows you will always take it, ๐
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Post by sedge on May 5, 2020 9:58:17 GMT
I find it's sometimes nice to play against "retro" style armies - not necessarily old models, but old units - the kind of army lists you'd see in a 1990's White Dwarf - Spearmen, Archers, a unit of their elite infantry, a Bolt Thrower, unit of Cavalry, probably a character on Griffon and that kind of stuff. It's the traditional High Elf look and makes for a more simple quick game (no need to remember the rules for the fancy newer stuff, which tend to be a bit more complex). On the other hand, it's also cool to see the really out-there models that you might not see much because they're not that strong - for High Elves that's things like the Lothern Skycutter that usually sit on the display shelf. I realise this advice is utterly useless - "do all the old classic units" -- "paint the fun wacky stuff". Sorry Being more helpful, I find it's best to start painting a new army with a basic Core Infantry unit as they define the look of the army, and if some models aren't quite 100% you can always hide them in the back ranks.
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Post by midnightfox0083 on May 5, 2020 12:54:08 GMT
Just always take BotWD, and ensure your opponent knows you will always take it, ๐ Or don't be TFG and never bring Banner of the Broken Bull$#*! because the army balance is fine otherwise.
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Post by DiscoQing on May 5, 2020 12:56:48 GMT
If you know he always takes it - that's a weakness?
Unless you're Daemons, ofc
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Post by midnightfox0083 on May 5, 2020 13:03:04 GMT
If you know he always takes it - that's a weakness? Unless you're Daemons, ofc Or Skaven or Undead or any number of armies where the actual damage is done by Magical Attacks. And don't pretend players aren't putting it on a massive unit of Phoenix Guard and having the vast majority of their points in that single unit.
The game is made lesser by the very existence of said banner.
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Post by DiscoQing on May 5, 2020 13:16:55 GMT
Nah its fine, if you know your opponent has it, your list choices should reflect that. If you're making an all comers list, then you have to play around it - easy ๐
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Post by midnightfox0083 on May 5, 2020 13:28:29 GMT
Yup, perfectly fine. That's why every single forum has more than 1 thread about how broken it is. :facepalm:
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on May 5, 2020 13:47:50 GMT
I would even give that the
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Post by strutsagget on May 5, 2020 17:01:48 GMT
Yup, perfectly fine. That's why every single forum has more than 1 thread about how broken it is. :facepalm: Is it even as broken as storm banner?
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Post by midnightfox0083 on May 5, 2020 17:04:03 GMT
Yup, perfectly fine. That's why every single forum has more than 1 thread about how broken it is. :facepalm: Is it even as broken as storm banner? Storm Banner doesn't hard counter an entire army, an entire game phase, and soft counter 3+ more armies for 50 points. Storm Banner affects both armies and BotWD also doesn't shut down.
Barring really good dice, shooty armies suffer through 1-2 turns of Storm Banner. Daemons have no counter for BotWD and other armies have to specifically build around it for it to have no effect. Which means almost no shooting for Skaven(only Slings aren't Magical) and reduced effectiveness for Wood Elves and Dwarves(no magic arrows or Runes, two of the traits for each army that defines their character), and shuts down most of the actual damage done in combat by Vampire Counts, Skaven, and several other armies.
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Post by strutsagget on May 5, 2020 17:21:40 GMT
Think you underestimate storm banner, had so many games where its been dominating. Especially when skaven gets first turn and activates it in opponents first turn after blasting away in their own turn.
Nullifying first two shooting turns is often 100% of the effective shooting.
Any Skaven player brining that banner can never complain about BotWD as they both just stupid.
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Post by midnightfox0083 on May 5, 2020 17:31:20 GMT
Vast majority of the time, my Storm Banner does jack all for a single round. I don't underestimate the Storm Banner, it's a random element that can't be relied on too much but can help. I've stopped taking it because there's better use of the points(mainly more bodies). There are a ton of Skaven players that don't consider it a must take and many higher level players didn't feature it in their tournament lists because of the randomness. BotWD isn't random and can literally determine the outcome of games pre-game, every single HE tournament list featured it, and most list threads recommend it as the first thing you include.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on May 5, 2020 20:13:54 GMT
What midnightfox0083 says. And it has not just defensive, but also offensive abilities: since the BoTW works against magical attacks, HE Mages can aim for IF/Miscasts with a highly reduced risk to themselves and the unit they are in. IMHO, the Storm Banner is good, and relatively cheap for 50 points, but the BoTWD for 50 points is simply nuts - 100 points would still be a bargain. Storm banner - One use only. The banner can be activated at the beginning of any playerโs turn. No flying movement is allowed across the entire battlefield and missile fire is at -2 to hit. All shooting attacks that donโt use BS to hit their target need to roll a 4+ on a D6 before they can fire. Roll a D6 at the beginning of each following player turn โ the effects of the banner will end on a D6 roll of 4+. Banner of the World Dragon All models in a unit that carries the Banner of the World Dragon have a 2+ ward save against all Wounds caused by spells, magic weapons and magical attacks. Furthermore, all Dragons (friend or foe) within 12" of the Banner of the World Dragon have the Stubborn special rule.
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