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Post by jukei on May 27, 2020 15:51:29 GMT
I have nothing to contribute here, I just wanted to say I love following this thread. The theory crafting of these lists is super interesting to me Lovely post! Thanks mate. These kind of things keep me motivated to write in this forum. Thanks also to Strutsagget who is always kind , open to suggestions and ready to share his experience with us.
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Post by strutsagget on May 27, 2020 16:01:25 GMT
jukei heavens might be great supporting lore as it is cheap and contains two bolts. Need to try it! I kind of like TA in theory as the list usually needs an anvil for both support charging with WR and wardancers. And usually you need somewhere to put a stop sign down on table. Also I think woodies benefits from two level 4s as they can barley play without magic support. But two mages on steeds might be better. Not sure about the gg but I am not sure about putting all my eggs in the ambush rule basket... might even be better with more GGs and one less GR.
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Post by jukei on May 27, 2020 16:12:16 GMT
Look I play Lizardmen with a lev 4 Slann lore of Heaven...always.it's a really good Lore. So yes you are right. but we should analyze better this topic. bear with me.
1) you should keep in mind that if you play only 1 treeman ( I prefer always play 2 of them for target saturation) you can lose him during the first turn because of 1 or a couple cannon balls) 2) if you are sure of this decision then you need to protect him as much as you can. Now if you compare Pha's protection to iceshard blizzard you will see why the first is better for this purpose.
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Post by jukei on May 27, 2020 16:22:53 GMT
3) if you have 2 lev 4 wizard + sisters you will have 10 possible spells to cast. this means you should choose lore with cheap spells to cast Talking about bolts
LIGHT Shem gaze 5+ banishment 10+ HEAVEN Urranon 10+ chain lighting 15+
Ok even if the second are stronger you need very cheap spell to cast.something will pass.
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Post by jukei on May 27, 2020 16:43:40 GMT
I think you need to have a clear magic strategy. in the first and second turn I would try dwellers below ( 6 dices searching for double 6 ) You cannot front easily horde or huge block so this is the way to go .
if you have 7 dices you should use 6 dices on dwellers searching for irresistible force. If you get it ...great ..if not he will use a dispel scroll or all the dices He has got for stopping it. you still have 1 dice left ! and you should try pha protection always ( on 3+ it will pass and you will have a great chance to see your treeman reaching the combat phase.)
If you have 8 dices 6 dwellers 1 shem 1 Pha 's protection ( 2 dices on pha if you front cannons )
9 dices
6 dwellers 2 dices on Banishment 1 oh pha 's protection ( can you see how much is crucial in this list having cheap spells to cast?)
or if you want to protect the treeman even more
6 dwellers 2 earth blood / regeneration 5+ on the treeman 1 Pha's protection
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Post by jukei on May 27, 2020 16:46:23 GMT
If you cast instead iceshard Blizzard you can hex 1 enemy target but this won't provide a protection against a second cannon for example .
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Post by jukei on May 27, 2020 16:54:33 GMT
regarding the fighting phase on Treeman you can cast
earth blood shield of thorns regrowth speed of light Pha's protection curse of anraheir
you have plenty of optionsfor protecting /hexing and so on ...
If treeman dies somehow it will be a huge loss You won't have an anvil and you will lose 4 spells. In this case support wild riders with anraheir ( giving a -1 to enemy) pha 's protection speed of light birona ( I know you won't know all of them but...you see the point.)
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Post by jukei on May 27, 2020 16:59:28 GMT
Regarding Glade guards I am not sure also. generally I like them but in this list....not that much .
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Post by jukei on May 27, 2020 17:07:12 GMT
12 Glade Guard: musician; hagbane tips 190 + 5 waywatchers 100 ----- 290... ohhh and try to guess...treeman ancient lev 2 Life costs exactly ...290!!!!
dadaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
there you are. you will have - 2 monsters. - target saturations - you will know all the lore of life - you will channel with an additional dice - you will lose for sure some arrows but then your strategy of flanking with dancers can have a real chance to work.
alternatively I suggest also to consider a better fighter : a super sweet treeman with strangleroot 245 points -ws6 -5 attacks -d6+1 shoots S5 ( roots)
Anyway I am aware you should reach the minimum base troop limit and so other changes in the list are needed.
( 3x 10 glade riders +arrows is always an option :-) mobility..shooting and preserving points on turn 2 ( on average ) I have 2 units in and on turn 3 they are all in . I know they won't do that much but let me say that each time something "touches " my 200 points of glade guards i see them vaporized. their mobility is limited and I am asking myself if they are able with their arrows to kill 200 points . ( maybe they can help against a monster or cannons....but still ..)
another option can be dropping the 2 waywatchers ( 220 points ) and find here and there points for a second tree
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Post by strutsagget on May 27, 2020 19:35:43 GMT
So we play 25% lords so it will not fit our criteria. Also need to fill core so can’t remove anything there without adding as much back.
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Post by strutsagget on May 27, 2020 19:40:44 GMT
The thing with the ancient is its dual role as a ld 10 steadfast thunderstomp and a mage. It is as good anvil as 25 eternal guard(last game his guts tar would have wiped out a full unit of 30 in one combat phase...). Regarding target saturation we still have a lot like the mage bus, 14 wild riders. At least I am going to try it out.
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Post by jukei on May 27, 2020 20:18:22 GMT
still consider the treeman with strangleroot. Btw the best way for understanding how your list works out is playtesting..:-) let me know!
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Post by strutsagget on May 28, 2020 5:49:41 GMT
still consider the treeman with strangleroot. Btw the best way for understanding how your list works out is playtesting..:-) let me know! Not sure though, I will try without as I don’t see anything to cut for 245p. That would be removing an eagle and all waywatchers. Regarding lore, maybe we need lore of metal...
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Post by strutsagget on May 28, 2020 13:19:31 GMT
So the main problem with glade riders is of course the ambush rule. Forfeit the first turn of a shooty list is very costly. Think of WMs could only shoot from turn two? And that is best case scenario. The ambush rule is so bad I just wish they didn’t have it at all.
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Post by jukei on May 28, 2020 15:16:17 GMT
So the main problem with glade riders is of course the ambush rule. Forfeit the first turn of a shooty list is very costly. Think of WMs could only shoot from turn two? And that is best case scenario. The ambush rule is so bad I just wish they didn’t have it at all. You have never spoken about a shooty list :-) you told you were working on an "full evasive" wood elf list. That's why I suggested glade riders :-)
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