Post by fingolfin78 on Jul 24, 2020 21:13:12 GMT
Hey all,
After recently getting back into 8th edition, I've been lamenting that cavalry just aren't as important due to changes in the rules from 7th to 8th (overall I like 8th better, but not in this case). So those who I play with have been discussing possible house rules changes that would increase cavalry's importance to what I would call, "a points appropriate level". I know this forum is for 8th edition and not to mess with the rules, but I have read back through several threads and see that people do often have house rules to improve gameplay (cannon rules changes seem to be a favorite). To set this discussion up, 8th edition is supposed to be more about the grind of combat and less about breaking an enemy, hence the steadfast rule, which favors big blocks of ranked up infantry (plus the horde special rule is in this vein as well). It feels like the balance to this is that monstrous and monster troop types gained stomp and thunderstomp, such that they inflict more damage against infantry, but can't disrupt (without a bunch of pricey models for monstrous, or not at all for monsters). But cavalry were left out in the cold on this one. So, my thinking is that cavalry should be able to do some extra damage like monstrous and monster troop types.
Here are some options we've been thinking about.
1. Models with the troop type cavalry have impact hits(1). This represents the mass of a mount and rider smashing into their foe on a charge. Only the front rank would count, in a similar manner to only mounts in the front rank get to attack i.e. no supporting attacks for mounts. So a unit of 5 knights (or 10 or 15 in two/three ranks of 5) would cause 5 impact hits on the turn the unit charges. I'm thinking I like this idea best, but it may be a little too powerful if the strength of the hit was too high (Inner Circle knights with lances have strength 6 on a charge... probably an over correction!), so I think I'd vote for using the mounts strength instead of the riders (probably better verisimilitude anyway), so strength 3 impact hits for most cavalry e.g. horses, elves steeds. etc. I think some mounts have strength 4 though, cold ones maybe? Oh, barding could increase the strength of the impact hits by 1; that's a lot of steel slamming into you at high speed! Or maybe not, I'm thinking out loud here.
2. In older editions of the game, charges got to attack first, regardless of initiative. So with the current rules, I would say, models with the troop type cavalry gain the always strikes first special rule on the turn in which they charge (Rider and Mount both gain the special rule).
3. All cavalry have the devastating charge special rule. I'm not sure I like this one because some cavalry do have the devastating charge special rule, and thus they would lose something unique about them as all cavalry gained what they have, thus making their points value need a change too, which complicates things. I guess the same would apply to option 2 above though; elf cavalry wouldn't improve like other cavalry would, because they already have always strikes first.
4. Models with the troop type cavalry have the stomp special rule. Accomplishing somewhat similar effects to number one, but only works on the small troop types, whereas option 1 would work against all troop types.
I like option 1 the best as it makes it even more imperative cavalry gets the charge to be points effective, but would love to hear others thoughts. What do you all think? I know some have suggested just getting rid of steadfast as a way of devaluing infantry again, and thus bringing other troop types into balance, but with the rank number exceptions for monstrous troop types, I'm not sure I like that, because cavalry is still treated like infantry (monster are left out too). Making a rule change to cavalry of "cavalry only need four models to form a complete rank" would really change the way players set up their units, so that feels like too big of a change to me.
Another thing I just thought of is, would monstrous cavalry gain said rule? They already get stomp, so I'm not sure they are currently underpowered and need a bump. But I haven't played 8th edition enough with or against monstrous cavalry to really know, that's why I'm asking you good folk. I'm also thinking that maybe fast cavalry doesn't gain this new house rules; they already get some special rules and I'm not sure whether or not they need a bump. Thanks in advance for any feedback.
After recently getting back into 8th edition, I've been lamenting that cavalry just aren't as important due to changes in the rules from 7th to 8th (overall I like 8th better, but not in this case). So those who I play with have been discussing possible house rules changes that would increase cavalry's importance to what I would call, "a points appropriate level". I know this forum is for 8th edition and not to mess with the rules, but I have read back through several threads and see that people do often have house rules to improve gameplay (cannon rules changes seem to be a favorite). To set this discussion up, 8th edition is supposed to be more about the grind of combat and less about breaking an enemy, hence the steadfast rule, which favors big blocks of ranked up infantry (plus the horde special rule is in this vein as well). It feels like the balance to this is that monstrous and monster troop types gained stomp and thunderstomp, such that they inflict more damage against infantry, but can't disrupt (without a bunch of pricey models for monstrous, or not at all for monsters). But cavalry were left out in the cold on this one. So, my thinking is that cavalry should be able to do some extra damage like monstrous and monster troop types.
Here are some options we've been thinking about.
1. Models with the troop type cavalry have impact hits(1). This represents the mass of a mount and rider smashing into their foe on a charge. Only the front rank would count, in a similar manner to only mounts in the front rank get to attack i.e. no supporting attacks for mounts. So a unit of 5 knights (or 10 or 15 in two/three ranks of 5) would cause 5 impact hits on the turn the unit charges. I'm thinking I like this idea best, but it may be a little too powerful if the strength of the hit was too high (Inner Circle knights with lances have strength 6 on a charge... probably an over correction!), so I think I'd vote for using the mounts strength instead of the riders (probably better verisimilitude anyway), so strength 3 impact hits for most cavalry e.g. horses, elves steeds. etc. I think some mounts have strength 4 though, cold ones maybe? Oh, barding could increase the strength of the impact hits by 1; that's a lot of steel slamming into you at high speed! Or maybe not, I'm thinking out loud here.
2. In older editions of the game, charges got to attack first, regardless of initiative. So with the current rules, I would say, models with the troop type cavalry gain the always strikes first special rule on the turn in which they charge (Rider and Mount both gain the special rule).
3. All cavalry have the devastating charge special rule. I'm not sure I like this one because some cavalry do have the devastating charge special rule, and thus they would lose something unique about them as all cavalry gained what they have, thus making their points value need a change too, which complicates things. I guess the same would apply to option 2 above though; elf cavalry wouldn't improve like other cavalry would, because they already have always strikes first.
4. Models with the troop type cavalry have the stomp special rule. Accomplishing somewhat similar effects to number one, but only works on the small troop types, whereas option 1 would work against all troop types.
I like option 1 the best as it makes it even more imperative cavalry gets the charge to be points effective, but would love to hear others thoughts. What do you all think? I know some have suggested just getting rid of steadfast as a way of devaluing infantry again, and thus bringing other troop types into balance, but with the rank number exceptions for monstrous troop types, I'm not sure I like that, because cavalry is still treated like infantry (monster are left out too). Making a rule change to cavalry of "cavalry only need four models to form a complete rank" would really change the way players set up their units, so that feels like too big of a change to me.
Another thing I just thought of is, would monstrous cavalry gain said rule? They already get stomp, so I'm not sure they are currently underpowered and need a bump. But I haven't played 8th edition enough with or against monstrous cavalry to really know, that's why I'm asking you good folk. I'm also thinking that maybe fast cavalry doesn't gain this new house rules; they already get some special rules and I'm not sure whether or not they need a bump. Thanks in advance for any feedback.