High Elves vs Beastman 4000 (fun made book)
Jul 30, 2020 20:40:14 GMT
FvonSigmaringen, strutsagget, and 2 more like this
Post by hebi on Jul 30, 2020 20:40:14 GMT
This was Battle against fan-made Beastman rulebook. I consider it much better than the original (which was too weak in my opinion). Some changes are good and much needed for this army but some of them I just don’t understand and disagree, but this Is not a discussion about this new army book.
Most important changes that needed to point out
1) Bestigors can get marks of chaos (like in old book) and a mark of Nurgle give them +1 T ( 5T on regular bestigor)
2) Beastmans doesn't need to deploy units on the battlefield to have the second one in ambush, so all of their units with ambush can go to ambush. The player controlling beastmen can decide from witch table edge he wants to bring the unit on a table (so no more rolling on D6)
3) Chariot Is T5 (not T4)
4) A lot of units, magic items and monster are cheaper
5) Most spells have lowered power needed to cast
Scenario:
We played a scenario where we had to allocate 5 "standards" or more like "tokens". Thay had to be allocated first to standard-bearers of units and BSB and then any unit or character could take rest. So I ended up with one in my unit of spearman, White Lions, Phenix Guars, BSB and General.
Beasman player allocated his to Minotaurs, Bestigors, BSB, General and last one to Doombule.
At the end of the scenario you had points for every token and +1 for killing BSB and General (total possible 12)
Whole book:
drive.google.com/file/d/0B_Redi9cZJ5iVTFFbVVEUFpUc2c/view
So at the beginning of a battle, I already knew that he will bring 2-3 units I consider Death Stars. My plan was to delay one or event to units as long as it was possible. Focus on one of them (shooting and magic) and then multi charge one of them and buff my units or debuff his with magic.
I hade lore of shadows with my lev4 pit of shades, Malkoth’s, The Withering, The Enfeebling Foe (pit of shades, lower D3 T, lower and/or D3 WS, BS, I, M, lower D3 S) so no Okkam’s but because he has low armour save lowering his T get a similar effect.
I wanted to bunker in one corner and put my eagle and phoenix in the left corner for him to think I will deploy there (and my plan at this time was to go with all unit in the opposite one) but after few not important drops from both of us, he put down Minotaurs. At this moment I decided to change my plan and deploy as far from this unit as possible and got with the left corner (looking from my perspective).
His 1 Turn
He won the roll to go first (with +1)
Moved everything forward spawn on left roll something like 15
One Cygor misfired, the second one hit my archers with lev 4 they passed Ld (BSB in range)
In magic, he cast 5d6 hits S1 on my bolt throwers which I let through because he still had some more power dices.
I really was afraid of his spawns with random movement and there ability to stop my chaff from blocking his units but besides killing spawns and maybe chariots on the right I didn’t see use fo them. With D3 wound I was skeptical to be able to kill cygor, plus I had so much movement advantage I thought I will be able to get them with my phoenixes.
Second spell was something to do with movement (affects all friendly units within 6". If cast, all units will immediately move D6+1" forward) so I stopped that, and then he rolled insanely high (but no miscast) small version of Purple Sun on my dragon (I2) so I scrolled it.
My 1 turn
My plan was to kill his chaff one the right, slow Minotaurs and long as possible, the sacrifice my lev 2 form Fenix guards and only then block them with my Fenix Guard because with there 4++ it was only unit what was able to stop them for more then 1 round (he had something like 65 S4 attacks in this unit +6 on every round of combat he won).
Silver helms charged spawn and made 2 wounds to we stick
Block Minotaurs with Revers. Flanked with both Phoenixes. One on left was a little bit risky because of flank charge of spawn and chariot but I moved my General to give his Ld and prepare fo countercharge (and I think my BSB was in range) and I was really afraid of his Cygors dropping stones on my General and Phoenixes.
In magic I cast Pit of Shades and killed a few 4 maybe 5 Bestigors.
His turn 2
He charges with Minotarus on my Revers I hold, he declares charge with chariot I flee chariot caches me.
Second chariot declares a charge on my Silve HelmsI lose combat he catches me with his chariot but it stands just in front of his minotaurs.
Charge with spawn and chariot into my Fenix does nothing (I think I had 4++ because of 6 in my last magic turn) I do 2 wounds to spawn and it Is a tie.
My 2 turn
I charge with my General kill spawn and chariot overrun hope to roll high to get into chariot but I roll low. Now I am afraid of two Cygors
Move my lev 4 into spearman unit
In shooting, I manage to kill one chariot.
Magic I think I cast –D3 M on Minotaurs
His turn 3
He forgot about his ambushers in last turn do now 3 of 4 came to the table. I wasn’t that afraid of them. I was hoping to make one more turn of shooting to kill second chariot on the right and maybe spawn but after that, there is no good use os them.
He charges with his chariot into my general and in retrospect, it was a mistake. I not only save me from cygor shooting but I easily kill chariot and make free reform which allowed me to charge anything I want.
He backup with Bestigors (Phenix was out of there line of sight despite what my map show)
Failed to make swift reform with Minotaurs.
Shooting he forces me to make 2 panic test with archers I pass (throwing axes from Gores).
My turn 3
I make long charge 9 charge with White Lions add Fhenix and General. Was thinking about adding second Phenix but It seemed like overkill and I was really afraid of those cygors, so I decided to charge one with Fenix with hopes to win combat and run into second. I didn’t know much about cygros but they are taught and stubborn (the general was in range I think) so now I know I had low chances to make it happen. But still only one of them will be able to shoot my general in next round.
Turn spearman's around because I don’t know what to do with them and it is really getting hot for my lev 4 mage.
Move the eagle to redirect Minotaurs.
I move my mage out of the unit (we play with forests that block line of sights).
In shooting, I manage to kill spawn.
Manage to roll one spell and lower T by 2 for Bestigors (so now they are T 3 which still isn’t bad). But to be honest it didn’t really matter because all my attacks are S 6 or higher so 1 would be the same.
He challenge with his BSB I accept with my champion. He crushes him. I ménage to make a lot of wounds, kill his lev 4 and lev 2 but still got 11 regular Bestiogrs. I roll 12 for two thunderstorms and kill 11. All from his unit wiped out.
And I think we made mistake concerning rules. His General had something that gives them stubborn (not a Crown) and when the whole unit was hiped out and only BSB and Lord were left we rolled for them separately (like for 2 separate combats). Not sure if those two characters should be threatened like one unit or 2 separate. Let me know in the comments, please.
His BSB ran away his Lord stick and overrun into him with my Prince and reform with Fenix to charge second Cygor.
His turn 4
He declares a charge on my archers I flee (now I like that if they will rally I will have one more unit to redirect his Minotaures) he redirects to superman and failed. Both units of Gores Failed there a charge (one was something like 7 and the second one 8).
He charges with the third unit of Gores I flee he caches me.
We had a discussion because I move my eagle such a way (no intention) that he couldn't charge his doombule out of the unit into my eagle (no way he would have fit not touching Minotaurs). It wasn't my purpose when I move eagle (forgot about Doombule) and he had a concern that this should be treated as “wors play”. At the and It was just unintentional and we left this, I let him chancel his charge with Doombule and he charges with the whole unit into my eagle.
Would be curious to see what you think about such blocking.
In shooting he shoot his Cygor into my lev 4.Make hit, I fail 4+ lookout sir (a sloppy play on my part because if spearman would have been in combat he would have been without Lookout Sir) and he roll 1 on wounding. Lucky me.
Penix manage to sneak one wound into Cygor but he sticks.
My turn 4
Now was a time to decide If I want to try to kill his Minotaur unit or just to preserve victory.
So I decided to get rid of Cygors and Gors and decide in next turn what to do.
2 Phoenixes manage to kill Cygor and My general manage to kill second one (only because he was wounded from misfire)
White Lios moved away from Minotaurs preparing to charge Gores.
Spearman manage to kill one unit of Gores and overrun into the second one.
To make sure I overrun I cast –D3 T on the first unit of Gores on 3 dices, Miscast and suck my mage into the void (that was a mistake they didn’t really need that spell)
His turn 5
He charges with chariot into my archers (I run) then redirect into my Phenix Guards he kills 2 I make 1 wound I win with musician, he sticks.
Gores throw axes into my White Lions like crazy and despite Lion Cloak, I can’t make any saves.
Spearmen beets Gores easily.
My tun 5
Because of me losing lev 4 and his chariot in combat with Phenix Guards I left my plan to kill his unit of Minotaurs and I decided to run away from them.
I make a charge (it was 7 or 8 despite what you see on map) with my Fenix to tide up Minotaurs in combat (and save Phenix Guards) and hope he will pass his Brake test will not be killed be Doombull and company.
Charge White Lions second Phenix and General into 2 units of Gores kill them easily.
Phoenix Guards won combat and pursued after chariot in hope to run away from Minotaurs
Fenix charge from the hill so he got +3, he only does 2 wounds I do 1 and it a draw (he wins with a musician) he loose his frenzy and I pass my Ld.
We end it here.
Score:
10-2 for HE
Summary
Now I think I should have try to take out his unit of Minotaurs. I saw it a few times just destroying other elite units like Warriors Of Chaos or Dwarf elite units and I think I was too intimidated. To be fair he rolled poorly with his Doombull and should have done more wounds to my Fenix. I was much more defensive form the beginning because I lacked Okham’s.
This was my 3 game with HE and I am very pleased with this army. It has some weakness and T3 on every Lord just hurts but after playing Empire I can appreciate much of what this army has (mobility, high Ld, Monsters, Elit Units) and big versatility.
I played 3 games with this roster that weekend and I am pleased with composition except my lev 2 with High Magic. I know people say it is versatile but I don’t see much use for it …. It is situational. Maybe it just doesn’t synergize with lev 4 Shadow.
Most important changes that needed to point out
1) Bestigors can get marks of chaos (like in old book) and a mark of Nurgle give them +1 T ( 5T on regular bestigor)
2) Beastmans doesn't need to deploy units on the battlefield to have the second one in ambush, so all of their units with ambush can go to ambush. The player controlling beastmen can decide from witch table edge he wants to bring the unit on a table (so no more rolling on D6)
3) Chariot Is T5 (not T4)
4) A lot of units, magic items and monster are cheaper
5) Most spells have lowered power needed to cast
Scenario:
We played a scenario where we had to allocate 5 "standards" or more like "tokens". Thay had to be allocated first to standard-bearers of units and BSB and then any unit or character could take rest. So I ended up with one in my unit of spearman, White Lions, Phenix Guars, BSB and General.
Beasman player allocated his to Minotaurs, Bestigors, BSB, General and last one to Doombule.
At the end of the scenario you had points for every token and +1 for killing BSB and General (total possible 12)
Whole book:
drive.google.com/file/d/0B_Redi9cZJ5iVTFFbVVEUFpUc2c/view
So at the beginning of a battle, I already knew that he will bring 2-3 units I consider Death Stars. My plan was to delay one or event to units as long as it was possible. Focus on one of them (shooting and magic) and then multi charge one of them and buff my units or debuff his with magic.
I hade lore of shadows with my lev4 pit of shades, Malkoth’s, The Withering, The Enfeebling Foe (pit of shades, lower D3 T, lower and/or D3 WS, BS, I, M, lower D3 S) so no Okkam’s but because he has low armour save lowering his T get a similar effect.
I wanted to bunker in one corner and put my eagle and phoenix in the left corner for him to think I will deploy there (and my plan at this time was to go with all unit in the opposite one) but after few not important drops from both of us, he put down Minotaurs. At this moment I decided to change my plan and deploy as far from this unit as possible and got with the left corner (looking from my perspective).
His 1 Turn
He won the roll to go first (with +1)
Moved everything forward spawn on left roll something like 15
One Cygor misfired, the second one hit my archers with lev 4 they passed Ld (BSB in range)
In magic, he cast 5d6 hits S1 on my bolt throwers which I let through because he still had some more power dices.
I really was afraid of his spawns with random movement and there ability to stop my chaff from blocking his units but besides killing spawns and maybe chariots on the right I didn’t see use fo them. With D3 wound I was skeptical to be able to kill cygor, plus I had so much movement advantage I thought I will be able to get them with my phoenixes.
Second spell was something to do with movement (affects all friendly units within 6". If cast, all units will immediately move D6+1" forward) so I stopped that, and then he rolled insanely high (but no miscast) small version of Purple Sun on my dragon (I2) so I scrolled it.
My 1 turn
My plan was to kill his chaff one the right, slow Minotaurs and long as possible, the sacrifice my lev 2 form Fenix guards and only then block them with my Fenix Guard because with there 4++ it was only unit what was able to stop them for more then 1 round (he had something like 65 S4 attacks in this unit +6 on every round of combat he won).
Silver helms charged spawn and made 2 wounds to we stick
Block Minotaurs with Revers. Flanked with both Phoenixes. One on left was a little bit risky because of flank charge of spawn and chariot but I moved my General to give his Ld and prepare fo countercharge (and I think my BSB was in range) and I was really afraid of his Cygors dropping stones on my General and Phoenixes.
In magic I cast Pit of Shades and killed a few 4 maybe 5 Bestigors.
His turn 2
He charges with Minotarus on my Revers I hold, he declares charge with chariot I flee chariot caches me.
Second chariot declares a charge on my Silve HelmsI lose combat he catches me with his chariot but it stands just in front of his minotaurs.
Charge with spawn and chariot into my Fenix does nothing (I think I had 4++ because of 6 in my last magic turn) I do 2 wounds to spawn and it Is a tie.
My 2 turn
I charge with my General kill spawn and chariot overrun hope to roll high to get into chariot but I roll low. Now I am afraid of two Cygors
Move my lev 4 into spearman unit
In shooting, I manage to kill one chariot.
Magic I think I cast –D3 M on Minotaurs
His turn 3
He forgot about his ambushers in last turn do now 3 of 4 came to the table. I wasn’t that afraid of them. I was hoping to make one more turn of shooting to kill second chariot on the right and maybe spawn but after that, there is no good use os them.
He charges with his chariot into my general and in retrospect, it was a mistake. I not only save me from cygor shooting but I easily kill chariot and make free reform which allowed me to charge anything I want.
He backup with Bestigors (Phenix was out of there line of sight despite what my map show)
Failed to make swift reform with Minotaurs.
Shooting he forces me to make 2 panic test with archers I pass (throwing axes from Gores).
My turn 3
I make long charge 9 charge with White Lions add Fhenix and General. Was thinking about adding second Phenix but It seemed like overkill and I was really afraid of those cygors, so I decided to charge one with Fenix with hopes to win combat and run into second. I didn’t know much about cygros but they are taught and stubborn (the general was in range I think) so now I know I had low chances to make it happen. But still only one of them will be able to shoot my general in next round.
Turn spearman's around because I don’t know what to do with them and it is really getting hot for my lev 4 mage.
Move the eagle to redirect Minotaurs.
I move my mage out of the unit (we play with forests that block line of sights).
In shooting, I manage to kill spawn.
Manage to roll one spell and lower T by 2 for Bestigors (so now they are T 3 which still isn’t bad). But to be honest it didn’t really matter because all my attacks are S 6 or higher so 1 would be the same.
He challenge with his BSB I accept with my champion. He crushes him. I ménage to make a lot of wounds, kill his lev 4 and lev 2 but still got 11 regular Bestiogrs. I roll 12 for two thunderstorms and kill 11. All from his unit wiped out.
And I think we made mistake concerning rules. His General had something that gives them stubborn (not a Crown) and when the whole unit was hiped out and only BSB and Lord were left we rolled for them separately (like for 2 separate combats). Not sure if those two characters should be threatened like one unit or 2 separate. Let me know in the comments, please.
His BSB ran away his Lord stick and overrun into him with my Prince and reform with Fenix to charge second Cygor.
His turn 4
He declares a charge on my archers I flee (now I like that if they will rally I will have one more unit to redirect his Minotaures) he redirects to superman and failed. Both units of Gores Failed there a charge (one was something like 7 and the second one 8).
He charges with the third unit of Gores I flee he caches me.
We had a discussion because I move my eagle such a way (no intention) that he couldn't charge his doombule out of the unit into my eagle (no way he would have fit not touching Minotaurs). It wasn't my purpose when I move eagle (forgot about Doombule) and he had a concern that this should be treated as “wors play”. At the and It was just unintentional and we left this, I let him chancel his charge with Doombule and he charges with the whole unit into my eagle.
Would be curious to see what you think about such blocking.
In shooting he shoot his Cygor into my lev 4.Make hit, I fail 4+ lookout sir (a sloppy play on my part because if spearman would have been in combat he would have been without Lookout Sir) and he roll 1 on wounding. Lucky me.
Penix manage to sneak one wound into Cygor but he sticks.
My turn 4
Now was a time to decide If I want to try to kill his Minotaur unit or just to preserve victory.
So I decided to get rid of Cygors and Gors and decide in next turn what to do.
2 Phoenixes manage to kill Cygor and My general manage to kill second one (only because he was wounded from misfire)
White Lios moved away from Minotaurs preparing to charge Gores.
Spearman manage to kill one unit of Gores and overrun into the second one.
To make sure I overrun I cast –D3 T on the first unit of Gores on 3 dices, Miscast and suck my mage into the void (that was a mistake they didn’t really need that spell)
His turn 5
He charges with chariot into my archers (I run) then redirect into my Phenix Guards he kills 2 I make 1 wound I win with musician, he sticks.
Gores throw axes into my White Lions like crazy and despite Lion Cloak, I can’t make any saves.
Spearmen beets Gores easily.
My tun 5
Because of me losing lev 4 and his chariot in combat with Phenix Guards I left my plan to kill his unit of Minotaurs and I decided to run away from them.
I make a charge (it was 7 or 8 despite what you see on map) with my Fenix to tide up Minotaurs in combat (and save Phenix Guards) and hope he will pass his Brake test will not be killed be Doombull and company.
Charge White Lions second Phenix and General into 2 units of Gores kill them easily.
Phoenix Guards won combat and pursued after chariot in hope to run away from Minotaurs
Fenix charge from the hill so he got +3, he only does 2 wounds I do 1 and it a draw (he wins with a musician) he loose his frenzy and I pass my Ld.
We end it here.
Score:
10-2 for HE
Summary
Now I think I should have try to take out his unit of Minotaurs. I saw it a few times just destroying other elite units like Warriors Of Chaos or Dwarf elite units and I think I was too intimidated. To be fair he rolled poorly with his Doombull and should have done more wounds to my Fenix. I was much more defensive form the beginning because I lacked Okham’s.
This was my 3 game with HE and I am very pleased with this army. It has some weakness and T3 on every Lord just hurts but after playing Empire I can appreciate much of what this army has (mobility, high Ld, Monsters, Elit Units) and big versatility.
I played 3 games with this roster that weekend and I am pleased with composition except my lev 2 with High Magic. I know people say it is versatile but I don’t see much use for it …. It is situational. Maybe it just doesn’t synergize with lev 4 Shadow.
