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Post by Lizards_of_Renown on Aug 2, 2020 11:52:51 GMT
Hi everyone.
So on the 14th I should be playing my first battle in a long time (yay!). This will be my Lizardmen versus my friends Orcs & Goblins.
I'm pretty happy with the list and am at the stage of tweaking it but it's always good to get another viewpoint (plus I am thoroughly addicted to making lists and will use any excuse to rework it completely even if it means I end up with the same original list )
So:
Lord Kroak OB with GW, Glittering Scales and Talisman of Preservation (in TG unit)
OB with GW, Armour of Fortune and Ironcurse Icon (in Saurus Unit)
Skink Priest with Cloak of Feathers Skink Priest
1 x 36 Saurus with full command 5 x 10 Skink Skirmishers
1 x 26 Temple Guard with full command and Banner of Eternal Flame 1 x 5 Chameleon Skinks Solardon
2 Ancient Stegadons with Giant Blowpipes 2 x 1 Salamanders
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So, the theory here is to use the two Skink Priests to Kroak Bomb (the one with the cloak of feathers to try to get behind his battle line) and try to use the Chamo Skinks to take out the inevitable Bolt Throwers. If not able to deploy close to them, them deploy close to the inevitable Night Goblin unit and get him to have to release his fanatics early. Alternatively use them to attack Mangler Squigs or force a frenzied unit to be pulled out of line.
Use the 5 sets of Skink Skirmishers to kill Mangler Squigs, Giants (although last time he played a Giant, one unit of Skink Skirmishers killed him in one turn... so I don't anticipate seeing one), fanatics as needed and then as charge redirectors so that I can try to choose who my two main combat units go into combat with.
Salamanders to work in tandem with the Skirmishers primarily to panic Goblin units and neutralize regeneration for the inevitable Troll unit so that the Skinks can do some damage there.
The TG unit with OB will be paired with one ancient steg and the Saurus with the other OB will be paired with the other. I made them larger than I normally would as I need to out-rank whatever combat I go into, do some serious damage and then break them to get into another. If I get bogged down anywhere I will be flanked unquestionably as I will be outnumbered by quite a bit. Use the Stegs to shoot stuff and either stop another unit charging my flank or do some initial damage to a unit and enable the combat unit to have a protected flank.
Keep the Solardon in the middle advancing and "shoot" it every turn to make him use up dispel dice (3+ needed to cast, wonderful stuff) and then make it easier to do multiple Kroak bombs. Can also target the Trolls.
I happen to know he doesn't have any Arachnarok Spiders.
Any thoughts welcome!
Cheers
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Post by knoffles on Aug 2, 2020 13:10:26 GMT
Do you guys play scenarios or just pitched battles?
Are you taking javelins or blowpipes on the skinks (I’m guessing the former).
I’d definitely be trying to put a dispel scroll on one of the skink priests.
The saurus/TG blocks seem fairly standard size. I wouldn’t want to take them any smaller.
What lore are you taking on the skinks themselves? One beasts, one heavens for the signatures?
Last question, does Kroak come with a built in bsb? (I’m not near my book so can’t remember).
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Post by Lizards_of_Renown on Aug 2, 2020 17:10:39 GMT
Do you guys play scenarios or just pitched battles? Are you taking javelins or blowpipes on the skinks (I’m guessing the former). I’d definitely be trying to put a dispel scroll on one of the skink priests. The saurus/TG blocks seem fairly standard size. I wouldn’t want to take them any smaller. What lore are you taking on the skinks themselves? One beasts, one heavens for the signatures? Last question, does Kroak come with a built in bsb? (I’m not near my book so can’t remember). Normally we just do pitched battle, but this time we’ll do the full shebang as I have a new gaming table, mat, scenery, etc. Definitely javelins. I’m not a fan of blowpipe on BS3... Two Beasts on the Skinks just on the off chance they get Transformation of Kadon or Amber Spear, but they’re mainly there as suicide bombers. Kroak being BSB is something I was contesting on Lustria Online. Meaning, any Slann Mage-Priest can be BSB. There are two Slann special characters and the other (Mazdamundi) has a built in BSB. I argued that surely Kroak (as a Slann Mage-Priest) could also be made BSB... Consensus was no. I could ask my friend, but I don’t want h8m to know that Kroak is being fielded...
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Yvain
Full Member
Posts: 112
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Post by Yvain on Aug 2, 2020 20:13:16 GMT
Special Characters in game are their own thing. They don't count the generic variant.
I kind of feel like your list doesn't have enough fighting units. TG and SW are great, but against O&G they might be able to outnumber you to much.
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Post by Lizards_of_Renown on Aug 2, 2020 20:47:03 GMT
Special Characters in game are their own thing. They don't count the generic variant. I kind of feel like your list doesn't have enough fighting units. TG and SW are great, but against O&G they might be able to outnumber you to much. Yeah, I had the same niggling concern. The only thing is that I worked out approximately how many units I'll be facing and even if I put all of my points (within reason) into units, he'll still have more than me and Saurus are really not going to do amazingly on a straight match with an orc unit that will for sure be outnumbering them. My idea was to use the Skinks to redirect and then use the combo TG/Steg and Saurus/Steg to smash which ever units are on the flanks and then turn inwards. (utilizing salamanders and Solardon to also help redirect). It's a bit of a mind-fudge... I could also lose the two ancient Stegs and get units, but that would give me one more decent sized TG unit... I figure I'm better off with the Stegs as support monsters for my units.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Aug 2, 2020 22:40:11 GMT
Regarding the BSB: the rule states "Unless your army contains Lord Mazdamundi, one Slann Mage-Priest, Saurus Scar-Veteran or Skink Chief in your army may be the Battle Standard Bearer for +25 points." These terms are not fluff terms, but belong to the game register. As explained in every Army Book (in casu, the Lizardmen AB p. 84), there is a specific "name by which the unit or character is identified," which is the first item on the profile. Lord Mazdamundi, Slann Mage-Priest, Saurus Scar-Veteran and Skink Chief all refer to these specific names on the profile. Lord Kroak is, unsurprisingly, identified by the name Lord Kroak, and thus cannot be a BSB.
On a side note (since I had a look on Lustria-online.com), the Eagle Eye bolt thrower cannot move and shoot.
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Post by Lizards_of_Renown on Aug 2, 2020 23:42:04 GMT
Regarding the BSB: the rule states "Unless your army contains Lord Mazdamundi, one Slann Mage-Priest, Saurus Scar-Veteran or Skink Chief in your army may be the Battle Standard Bearer for +25 points." These terms are not fluff terms, but belong to the game register. As explained in every Army Book ( in casu, the Lizardmen AB p. 84), there is a specific "name by which the unit or character is identified," which is the first item on the profile. Lord Mazdamundi, Slann Mage-Priest, Saurus Scar-Veteran and Skink Chief all refer to these specific names on the profile. Lord Kroak is, unsurprisingly, identified by the name Lord Kroak, and thus cannot be a BSB. On a side note (since I had a look on Lustria-online.com), the Eagle Eye bolt thrower cannot move and shoot. Fair enough on the BSB. On the Eagle Eye Bolt Thrower, ha! What is your login on LO? And I would challenge this, since it says “a bolt thrower with the following profile” which doesn’t include move or shoot. Why would it be on a chariot if it had to stay still?
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Aug 3, 2020 7:24:39 GMT
As it happens, I was misled by the discussion on Lustria-online. I wrongly assumed that somebody had looked up the rules - a silly mistake, I know. You are correct, but for the wrong reasons. The reason why the EEBT can move and fire is because its rules specifically state that it "can be fired by one of the Skycutter's crew in place of his bow, even if the Skycutter moves."
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Aug 3, 2020 7:36:32 GMT
On a more general note: referring to the profile as being an exemption is an error. You may notice that the bolt thrower profile in the BRB does not have the "Move or Fire" or "Slow to Fire" special rules either. For that, we have to move to BRB p. 109, which states (updated): "Unless specified otherwise, all weapons in this section (and all other weapons mounted on war machines)have the Move or Fire and Slow to Fire special rules. Since the EEBT rules specify otherwise, the EEBT does not have the Move or Fire, but still the Slow to Fire special rule.
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Post by Lizards_of_Renown on Aug 3, 2020 8:26:52 GMT
On a more general note: referring to the profile as being an exemption is an error. You may notice that the bolt thrower profile in the BRB does not have the "Move or Fire" or "Slow to Fire" special rules either. For that, we have to move to BRB p. 109, which states (updated): "Unless specified otherwise, all weapons in this section (and all other weapons mounted on war machines)have the Move or Fire and Slow to Fire special rules. Since the EEBT rules specify otherwise, the EEBT does not have the Move or Fire, but still the Slow to Fire special rule. Fair enough, I stand corrected and have posted to clarify the mistake. Do you have anything to contribute on my army list above? Or any suggestions?
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Aug 3, 2020 8:56:45 GMT
I would agree with knoffles to take a BSB and a dispel scroll. Cold-Blooded only goes so far, and O&G do have some powerful spells.
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Post by Lizards_of_Renown on Aug 3, 2020 12:33:53 GMT
I would agree with knoffles to take a BSB and a dispel scroll. Cold-Blooded only goes so far, and O&G do have some powerful spells. So you mean a SV BSB? I agree on the dispel scroll. But the SV BSB seems too squishy, since I can't take anything to protect him...
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Post by knoffles on Aug 3, 2020 22:24:15 GMT
I would agree with knoffles to take a BSB and a dispel scroll. Cold-Blooded only goes so far, and O&G do have some powerful spells. So you mean a SV BSB? I agree on the dispel scroll. But the SV BSB seems too squishy, since I can't take anything to protect him... he can always take light armour and either an enchanted shield or Dragonhelm & shield. Both would put him to a 2+ save. You could even put him on a coldone and it would fit into either the TG or Saurus unit as it has the same footprint. It would mean he wouldn’t get a lookout sir vs cannons and the like though.
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Post by Lizards_of_Renown on Aug 4, 2020 0:07:12 GMT
So you mean a SV BSB? I agree on the dispel scroll. But the SV BSB seems too squishy, since I can't take anything to protect him... he can always take light armour and either an enchanted shield or Dragonhelm & shield. Both would put him to a 2+ save. You could even put him on a coldone and it would fit into either the TG or Saurus unit as it has the same footprint. It would mean he wouldn’t get a lookout sir vs cannons and the like though. Oh I get it. You're saying just use the BSB, don't give him a magic standard and then he gets his 50 pts magic item allowance. That's an idea... I'm currently reworking my list to include 2 (rather than 1) Saurus units based on advice above, while still including some Skirmishers. Means I will be using Chamo Skinks to trigger fanatics and kill Mangler Squigs, but fine.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Aug 4, 2020 7:38:12 GMT
The BSB is as such already valuable enough to forego in most cases a magic standard in favour of extra protection. Just as for the Empire, the choices of magic standards available to a Lizardmen BSB is not really appealing, in any case.
You could perhaps simply switch an OB for a SSV-BSB.
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