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Post by knoffles on Aug 5, 2020 8:19:06 GMT
he can always take light armour and either an enchanted shield or Dragonhelm & shield. Both would put him to a 2+ save. You could even put him on a coldone and it would fit into either the TG or Saurus unit as it has the same footprint. It would mean he wouldn’t get a lookout sir vs cannons and the like though. Oh I get it. You're saying just use the BSB, don't give him a magic standard and then he gets his 50 pts magic item allowance. That's an idea... I'm currently reworking my list to include 2 (rather than 1) Saurus units based on advice above, while still including some Skirmishers. Means I will be using Chamo Skinks to trigger fanatics and kill Mangler Squigs, but fine. Correct. I’d treat him like any other SSV. Magic items for defence and a GW for attack. He’ll boost your unit whilst remaining fairly cheap.
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Post by Lizards_of_Renown on Aug 6, 2020 0:34:09 GMT
Thanks everyone who contributed so far. I've worked over the list now to 2996 (I WILL work out how to fit in the last 4 points! I want my money's worth! ) So it's now: Lord Kroak OB with Talisman of Preservation, Glittering Scales and GW (note as he'll be in Lord Kroak's TG unit, he'll be at -2 to hit!) Skink Priest with Cloak of Feathers Skink Priest with dispel scroll SV with Armour of Fortune and GW SV with Armour of Destiny, GW and BSB 2 units of 26 Saurus with music & standard (each will have one of the SV's) 2 units of 10 Skink Skirmishers 26 TG with music, standard, champion and Banner of Eternal Flame, 2 units of 5 Chameleon Skinks 2 ancient Stegs with Giant Blowpipes 2 units of Salamanders - I feel like I should have more Skink Skirmishers or at least more Chamo Skinks for Mangler Squigs, Squig herds, fanatics, Pump Wagons and War Machines. Otherwise, one Steg will be with TG, Kroak and OB going down flank, breaking outside unit and then turning inwards. The other Steg and Salamander will be with the 2 Saurus & SV units on the other flank, trying to turn it as well. In the meantime, the Skink Priests will get as close as possible (ideally the one with CoF can get behind the lines) and then Kroak bomb them as much as possible.
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Post by Lizards_of_Renown on Aug 6, 2020 23:39:55 GMT
Anyone have any advice on my battle plan?
I have a bad feeling I'm going to get surrounded, but was trying to prevent that with the Stegs and Salamanders.
Thoughts?
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Post by knoffles on Aug 7, 2020 23:56:12 GMT
Anyone have any advice on my battle plan? I have a bad feeling I'm going to get surrounded, but was trying to prevent that with the Stegs and Salamanders. Thoughts? I kind of agree that you might need a couple more units of skinks to draw out fanatics/manglers but no idea if your opponent will bring those. Apart from that, I have little to offer as Lizards aren’t something I’ve used much, though I have faced them quite a lot.
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Post by Lizards_of_Renown on Aug 8, 2020 7:20:48 GMT
Anyone have any advice on my battle plan? I have a bad feeling I'm going to get surrounded, but was trying to prevent that with the Stegs and Salamanders. Thoughts? I kind of agree that you might need a couple more units of skinks to draw out fanatics/manglers but no idea if your opponent will bring those. Apart from that, I have little to offer as Lizards aren’t something I’ve used much, though I have faced them quite a lot. Right. So I anticipate that I will be facing about 6 blocks of infantry as we are playing at 3K. Can I get away with having 2 blocks myself (i.e. Have a large Temple Guard unit and a large Saurus unit, with a bunch of Skink Skirmishers to run interference, kill fanatics/manglers?)? Do you have any experience in playing O&Gs? That could help... Thanks!
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Post by knoffles on Aug 8, 2020 8:16:29 GMT
I used OnG extensively in earlier editions (Which I appreciate is different to in 8th) and we had one dedicated OnG player at the club and he always favoured the orc gunline and duel wyvern.
Some of the normal things you tend to face are: Horde of Savage Orc Big’uns Several units of 5 wolf riders 2 Mangler Squigs Bus of night Goblins with 2 fanatics Multiple rock lobbers and doom divers Multiple spear chuckers Multiple wolf chariots (sometimes instead of wolf riders) Orc boyz
Depending on the foe you might also find: Pump Wagon Black Orcs (and Grimgor) Goblin Boss on Spider Trolls (accompanied by Orc Boss on Warboar)
If you plan on facing the top list and have a plan to deal with them, then you’ll probably do OK. The OnG list is just so extensive you never know what you might face
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Post by Lizards_of_Renown on Aug 8, 2020 8:25:00 GMT
I used OnG extensively in earlier editions (Which I appreciate is different to in 8th) and we had one dedicated OnG player at the club and he always favoured the orc gunline and duel wyvern. Some of the normal things you tend to face are: Horde of Savage Orc Big’uns Several units of 5 wolf riders 2 Mangler Squigs Bus of night Goblins with 2 fanatics Multiple rock lobbers and doom divers Multiple spear chuckers Multiple wolf chariots (sometimes instead of wolf riders) Orc boyz Depending on the foe you might also find: Pump Wagon Black Orcs (and Grimgor) Goblin Boss on Spider Trolls (accompanied by Orc Boss on Warboar) If you plan on facing the top list and have a plan to deal with them, then you’ll probably do OK. The OnG list is just so extensive you never know what you might face It's true. The list is HUGE. Makes for great game play though as it's so random. What do you reckon about having 2 large infantry blocks, each supported by a Steg and Salamander and then a bunch of skirmishers to redirect those I don't want to fight / to handle the manglers or fanatics. I plan to draw out the fanatics by sacrificing one of my two Chamo Skinks so they're forced to bounce around early, then use my missile troops on the manglers. Flying Kroak bombing skink should help with this as well.
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Post by dannytee on Aug 8, 2020 14:27:23 GMT
I like the list and think it should be fun to play while also being competitive. I would say try it out and tweak for next game after you learn a bit more.
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Post by Lizards_of_Renown on Aug 8, 2020 15:25:44 GMT
I like the list and think it should be fun to play while also being competitive. I would say try it out and tweak for next game after you learn a bit more. Do you think I should switch one of the two saurus blocks for some more Skink skirmishers? Like make the one block 36 strong. it just feels like I need more Skinks...
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Post by dannytee on Aug 11, 2020 9:59:12 GMT
I like the list and think it should be fun to play while also being competitive. I would say try it out and tweak for next game after you learn a bit more. Do you think I should switch one of the two saurus blocks for some more Skink skirmishers? Like make the one block 36 strong. it just feels like I need more Skinks... Me personally, no, I don’t think so. I prefer rank and file units (saurus) over skirmisher/redirectors (skinks). You have 30 skinks total which is the same amount I have painted in my lizardmen collection (also 20 skink and 10 chameleon). From a purely competitive point the old hard core tournament players would tell you saurus are not worth their points and you should fill all core with skinks. In my opinion though that pretty much creates a harassment/avoidance list which isn’t fun for your opponent to play against in my opinion.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Aug 11, 2020 11:27:46 GMT
In my opinion though that pretty much creates a harassment/avoidance list which isn’t fun for your opponent to play against in my opinion. It is called a harassment list for a reason...
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Post by Lizards_of_Renown on Aug 11, 2020 11:57:09 GMT
I'd like to thank everyone for their input!
I'm finalizing my list and will play the battle on Thursday morning, then post the battle rep.
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Post by saniles on Aug 14, 2020 0:16:06 GMT
ahhh man, my response didn't post! Well poop. I see you were supposed to play this morning so I guess my feedback isn't going to be useful... I wasn't a competitive anything player ever so I don't have that perspective. I guess I would just be afraid of having too many redirecting units on the field. I haven't tried it myself, but I would think having too many might confuse the table so much that if you aren't careful you end up blocking yourself up a bunch possibly. Maybe I'm crazy...
-break-
I'd be interested to know why saurus were considered not worth their points too.
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Post by knoffles on Aug 14, 2020 15:50:01 GMT
ahhh man, my response didn't post! Well poop. I see you were supposed to play this morning so I guess my feedback isn't going to be useful... I wasn't a competitive anything player ever so I don't have that perspective. I guess I would just be afraid of having too many redirecting units on the field. I haven't tried it myself, but I would think having too many might confuse the table so much that if you aren't careful you end up blocking yourself up a bunch possibly. Maybe I'm crazy... -break- I'd be interested to know why saurus were considered not worth their points too. Saurus look good on paper but the low WS and poor initiative really hinders them in matchups. On average they will only hit 50% of the time. Not having the option to taken great weapons is the other big drawback, as with their initiative there would be almost no downside. It’s why you so often see GW armed dwarves. In an edition where the number of models you can kill is often the key combat consideration, it means they are really reliant on magical support to become very effective.
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Yvain
Full Member
Posts: 112
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Post by Yvain on Aug 21, 2020 13:52:14 GMT
I disagree with this assessment. Yes having INT 1 and lower WS sucks. However, the rest of their abilities make them probably the number 2 non-elite infantry in the game right behind probably longbeards.
Like longbeards, they don't need the upgrades to do their job well against most targets all of the key abilities are already there. Yes they will lose to the most elite infantry, but they will trade well with everything in their class and crush anything lower. High Armor and cold blooded will mean they stick around unless we are talking the 12+ point units armed with GW. They can muster a crazy amount of attacks that bursts even higher thanks to PF. With S4 even against those GW troops they will do serious damage. At 50% you are looking at 20 hits at least when armed with spears.
The other thing is reliable access to hand of glory thanks to Slann Magic. Because they can hold the line, you can really turn a grind into a win with a cheapo cast of hand using just one spell dice.
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