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Post by delflover5000 on Aug 20, 2020 12:07:22 GMT
2400pts I wanted to move away from my usual strategy of lots of fast cav + swarm them against Dwarfs. Instead I wanted to see if i can out range them and force them to come to me. The main game plan involves 4 bolt throwers + comet of casandora/ thunderbolt for damage and multiple castings of miasma + ice shard blizzard while trying to stay out of range of organ guns. The hydras will hopefully distract and tank a cannon ball or two to protect the bolt throwers, and with a bit of luck the dark riders/shades/pegasus rider will help kill off war machines.
Supreme Sorceress Lvl4 (Heavens) Soreceress Lvl2 (Shadow) Sorceress Lvl1 (Shadow) Master/ Dark Pegasus + Cloak of twilight Master BSB
14 darkshards 14 darkshards 5 dark riders 5 dark riders
4 Bolt throwers 20 Executioners 2 War hydras (distraction carnifex) 5 shades
Any suggestions? Is this doomed for failure? Is it too tailored and a bit obnoxious for dwarfs?
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Post by sedge on Aug 20, 2020 14:19:12 GMT
You know you'll come up against an in-your-face Strollaz list if you try this? Some people dislike list tailoring - I'm fine with it, just so long as your opponent is of the same opinion. I don't know where you are with points on this, but the Shades would benefit from great weapons if you can fit them in. I'd be tempted to include an Assassin in the list to give my opponent some real doubts about engaging the Darkshards with an infantry unit that has a Thane/Runesmith in, but that wouldn't help with hitting him from range / encouraging him to close with you. It's a good list.
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Yvain
Full Member
Posts: 112
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Post by Yvain on Aug 20, 2020 15:22:11 GMT
I think you have created a list that will either completely succeed or fail with a lean towards completely fail.
Bolt Throwers have a 16% chance to do damage to a warmachine at long range with no cover. That doesn't mean kill one, just do damage. That number drops to like 10% if they have the banner of grugni for that bubble 5+ ward. That means it will be really hard to reliably kill those warmachines.
The trouble here is you have little combat power. Like if I saw your list, I would just target your units with everything and ignore the warmachines until turn 3 when my gyros could get into CC. If your units are dead what do I have to fear from your bolt throwers?
In my standard list, I have at a min 1 OG, 1 cannon, and 2 gyros. I would probably focus fire the executioners and a hydra. I could probably take them out by turn 2 and at that point the only thing I am really afraid of is a pit of shades. Even if you get really lucky and pop the two WM early, I still think I could out grind you because bolt throwers are less useful against heavy armor dwarf troops with grugni banner.
If I were you, I would target the gyros and comet an infantry block. Once those targets are dead or degraded feel free to target an organ gun. However, waiting for Dwarfs to just turkey shoot your guys off the board to me is a failing strategy.
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Post by delflover5000 on Aug 20, 2020 19:31:53 GMT
Yvain I agree that this will either work well or not at all. However I have no intention of using the bolt throwers on the war machines until there's no better option, also I think the multi-shot is more effective (still not good) here than single-shot. Past games make me expect MR of Valaya and hammerers are currently not available to no second MR. We usually play with significant terrain so the executioners will largely spend the game hiding in cover/out of sight if possible, only there for when a combat unit gets near. The plan is to deploy deep, within 6" of board edge where possible assuming 12" deployment ( we roll for scenario so some variance here) we can stay out of range of any organ guns initially even if they are right on the deployment line. I have guaranteed access to iceshard blizzard & two miasmas to hinder anything shooting me and they can't counter everthing (.....right?), this can even reduce their movement which could be circumstantially useful. Priority #1 is kill the gyrocopters as they scare me the most, all bolt throwers, rxbows & urannons thunderbolt will be directed here first. Dark riders/shades/comets/Peg master and later turns thunderbolt will go after the warmachine and I expect the pegasus master to do the heavy lifting here. I think a big part of this relies on my opponent not realising I don't intend to advance with the hydras / executioners. If they have two cannons and immediately start destroying my bolt throwers then I'll have to advance, at which point I'm probably finished. sedge Please not strollaz ... maybe I finally use windblast? I never usually tailor other than to avoid using things that are awful in certain match up e.g I not going to use a terrorgheist v dwarfs, what would be the point? We both know the armies going so I know it'll be ok. Thanks for the feedback, I'll add a list with full points values
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Post by delflover5000 on Aug 20, 2020 19:41:41 GMT
Supreme sorceress, lvl4, power stone 240pts
sorceress, lvl2 115pts sorceress, lvl 1 80pts master, HA, SDC, lance, shield, d pegasus, cloak of Twilight 188pts master, bsb, sdc, ha, S of Might, E shield, Iron curse icon 135pts
14 darkshards, shields, Mus/Std, Gleaming penndant 207pts 14 darkshards, shields, Mus 192pts 5 Darkriders, shields, rxb, mus 110pts 5 dark riders, shields, rxb, mus 110pts
4 R bolt thrower 280pts War hydra, breath 180pts War hydra, breath 180pts 20 Executioners, FC, banner of swiftness 285pts 5 shades, great weapons 90pts Total 2392pts
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Post by knoffles on Aug 21, 2020 2:33:02 GMT
I’m not sure about out ranging dwarves but I will say that I wouldn’t mind facing that list with my dwarves. Not because I thought I’d easily beat it but because it’s a bit different. My one worry about your list is perhaps the unit of executioners. 20 seems quite small. All it needs is one round of good shooting (I.e if you roll snake eyes in your magic phase 😉) and that unit will be made reasonably ineffective, though his shooting will likely be prioritising other elements first.
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Post by delflover5000 on Aug 21, 2020 12:29:33 GMT
Your're probably right, I was just hoping they'd be able to hide until I've got the war machines tied up. I think I'll drop the breath weapon on the hydras as there's a fair chance they never even get to use them. I can then fit in 4 more executioners at least, but I don't think I want to cut anything else for more.
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Post by TheRealGIB on Aug 21, 2020 18:47:43 GMT
Depending on the kind of dwarf list that you run up against at 2400, you are probably looking at between 3-4 war machines, and maybe a few missile units. With BS3 troops and range penalties, the missile units are not that much of a threat, as they are relatively expensive which limits the amount of shots they will put out. With M5 at least on your entire army, you might just want to beat his shooting by tying up the scary parts (Looking at my precious organ guns) and then bringing your hammers to bear. Black guard and executioners make short work of most dwarf units, even elite ones like hammerers.
You also have access to some nasty magic in both Dark and Death, but I think you have over indexed with three wizards in your original list. I would recommend just the level four and a level 2 scroll caddy. I do not mind the bolt throwers, but I also think you might have gone too far in on them. You are paying a premium on your units for high initiative, movement, ASF, and WS. If you try to slug it out at range, you are wasting most of these advantages.
If you are really set on out shooting the dwarves, just grab a bunch of dark riders and harpies to try and tie up his warmachines, add in magic missiles and direct damage to bolster your darkshards, and you should come out pretty ok.
Also, are you playing with the 50% lords and heroes restriction or the original 25%?
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