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Post by knoffles on Jan 1, 2021 17:40:47 GMT
A question was poised on one of the FB groups about whether a gyro could stand and shoot with the steam gun. I tried to look at it and couldn’t see that it wouldn’t be able to. Or am I missing anything?
Even if it could, then as the shooting occurs just under the maximum range of the shortest range gun, then likely the most it would ever hit was 1 or 2 models but I still thought it was an interesting question.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Jan 2, 2021 9:05:33 GMT
The S&S rules seem to have been written primarily with BS shooting in mind. That said, since its rules do not contain a restriction, the steam gun is able to S&S. However, the rule you refer to is inapplicable, since the steam gun does not have a range. Hence, if the steam gun declares a S&S reaction, you place the template at the muzzle and only those models of the unit declaring a charge that are actually under the template will be hit.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Jan 2, 2021 9:54:50 GMT
Note also that the steam gun is not Quick to Fire. So, no S&S, unless the enemy starts its charge outside its Movement characteristic.
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Post by Lizards_of_Renown on Jan 5, 2021 19:15:07 GMT
A question was poised on one of the FB groups about whether a gyro could stand and shoot with the steam gun. I tried to look at it and couldn’t see that it wouldn’t be able to. Or am I missing anything? Even if it could, then as the shooting occurs just under the maximum range of the shortest range gun, then likely the most it would ever hit was 1 or 2 models but I still thought it was an interesting question. There is a passage under the "Movement" section of the "War Machines" part of the BRB which says: "If charged, a war machine can only choose to hold..." which precludes them from choosing a stand and shoot reaction. |
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Jan 5, 2021 21:53:29 GMT
Except that the troop type of a gyrocopter is unique, not war machine. Since the steam gun does not have the special rule "Slow to Fire," or any other restriction in its rules, it can stand an shoot, but it can hit only models that would fall under the normal placement of the template.
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Post by Horace on Jan 5, 2021 21:57:14 GMT
Except that the troop type of a gyrocopter is unique, not war machine. Since the steam gun does not have the special rule "Slow to Fire," or any other restriction in its rules, it can stand an shoot, but it can hit only models that would fall under the normal placement of the template. It is some excellent information  Love my Gyros and they just got better |
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Jan 5, 2021 22:14:34 GMT
Of course, from a purely S&S perspective, the brimstone gun is a far superior choice.
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Post by Lizards_of_Renown on Jan 6, 2021 11:00:07 GMT
Except that the troop type of a gyrocopter is unique, not war machine. Since the steam gun does not have the special rule "Slow to Fire," or any other restriction in its rules, it can stand an shoot, but it can hit only models that would fall under the normal placement of the template.
Wow, good fudging point! Didn't spot that and assumed was category of War Machine.
Nice one!
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Post by knoffles on Jan 6, 2021 15:39:34 GMT
Of course, from a purely S&S perspective, the brimstone gun is a far superior choice. woohoo someone has finally found a situation where the brimstone gun is better 😂 |
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Post by Lizards_of_Renown on Jan 6, 2021 18:32:33 GMT
Except that the troop type of a gyrocopter is unique, not war machine. Since the steam gun does not have the special rule "Slow to Fire," or any other restriction in its rules, it can stand an shoot, but it can hit only models that would fall under the normal placement of the template. How do you read the S&S rules as applied to a template weapon? It's a funny one since most of them have the Slow to Fire special rule... In the BRB it says, "If a Stand and Shoot charge reactions is declared against an enemy unit that starts it's charge outside the firing unit's maximum range - the shooting is resolved normally assuming the enemy is just within maximum range of the shooting unit's shortest-ranged weapon." Obviously in the unit is already within the distance to be hit by the template, then no probs. But if it starts the charge outside, I guess you'd position it where the first rank gets hit? (depending on size of model would only be a couple of models though...) |
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Post by knoffles on Jan 6, 2021 19:09:51 GMT
Except that the troop type of a gyrocopter is unique, not war machine. Since the steam gun does not have the special rule "Slow to Fire," or any other restriction in its rules, it can stand an shoot, but it can hit only models that would fall under the normal placement of the template. How do you read the S&S rules as applied to a template weapon? It's a funny one since most of them have the Slow to Fire special rule... In the BRB it says, "If a Stand and Shoot charge reactions is declared against an enemy unit that starts it's charge outside the firing unit's maximum range - the shooting is resolved normally assuming the enemy is just within maximum range of the shooting unit's shortest-ranged weapon." Obviously in the unit is already within the distance to be hit by the template, then no probs. But if it starts the charge outside, I guess you'd position it where the first rank gets hit? (depending on size of model would only be a couple of models though...) That’s pretty much how I read it. If it’s just within range then just a couple of models (perhaps 3 20mm bases at most) would be partially under the template. |
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Post by Lizards_of_Renown on Jan 6, 2021 20:55:45 GMT
Of course, from a purely S&S perspective, the brimstone gun is a far superior choice. woohoo someone has finally found a situation where the brimstone gun is better 😂 Surely brimstone gun is better against smaller but more heavily armoured enemies like WoC? Or Ogre Kingdoms? S3 and Armour Piercing isn't really intimidating to these kind of armies... |
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Jan 6, 2021 21:33:45 GMT
How do you read the S&S rules as applied to a template weapon? It's a funny one since most of them have the Slow to Fire special rule... In the BRB it says, "If a Stand and Shoot charge reactions is declared against an enemy unit that starts it's charge outside the firing unit's maximum range - the shooting is resolved normally assuming the enemy is just within maximum range of the shooting unit's shortest-ranged weapon." Obviously in the unit is already within the distance to be hit by the template, then no probs. But if it starts the charge outside, I guess you'd position it where the first rank gets hit? (depending on size of model would only be a couple of models though...) That’s pretty much how I read it. If it’s just within range then just a couple of models (perhaps 3 20mm bases at most) would be partially under the template. As I have already specifically pointed out above, the steam gun of a gyrocopter has no range, [or to be more precise, range is not applicable. Hence, rules that apply to range are equally not applicable to the steam gun, and the steam gun can only hit models that are actually under the template.] |
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Post by knoffles on Jan 6, 2021 21:40:10 GMT
woohoo someone has finally found a situation where the brimstone gun is better 😂 Surely brimstone gun is better against smaller but more heavily armoured enemies like WoC? Or Ogre Kingdoms? S3 and Armour Piercing isn't really intimidating to these kind of armies... The issue with the Brimstone Gun is it’s ability to hit most of the time. BS 3 for the pilot and multiple shots (D3) means it won’t hit better than on a 5+ and that drops to a 6+ if over 9” away. It’s also D3 shots. (Though it will at least wound on a 3+ against most warriors and ogres). The flame template of the steam gun is still pretty effective against warriors as you can cover potentially quite a lot of them with their 25mm bases, auto hitting and wounding on 5+. Ogres are perhaps a different matter but I think I’d still prefer the steam gun. |
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Post by vulcan on Jan 7, 2021 16:43:48 GMT
woohoo someone has finally found a situation where the brimstone gun is better 😂 Surely brimstone gun is better against smaller but more heavily armoured enemies like WoC? Or Ogre Kingdoms? S3 and Armour Piercing isn't really intimidating to these kind of armies... Well, yes, but one generally does not take a gyrocoptor for the one stand-and-shoot you're going to get with it. You take it to swoop around and drop that template down the flank of a unit and hit most of it all at once. |
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