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Post by anechrome on Feb 18, 2021 11:18:53 GMT
So this has been bugging me for quite a while and I can't find anything in the rules or FAQ about it. When using the HoG to move a nightgoblin unit close to an enemy unit the fanatics pops out when the units are 8" apart. That much is in the FAQ. I've also always assumed that the movement of HoG is done in a straight line. Can't find anything to support this, it just seems implied for some reason. My question is, are you really suppose to be able to use the HoG to pop you opponents fanatics (O&G vs O&G) without them being able to hit your own unit if the move is tanken OVER some impassible terrain? The idea is that your unit starts more than 8" away, goes over the terrain as it passes within 8", and then ends up outside of 12" (the max distance a fanatic can travel) or perhaps even behind said terrainpiece making it impossible for the fanatics to get to them?
How do you play this and does anyone have any references in rules or batreps where this has happened?
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Post by knoffles on Feb 19, 2021 9:29:24 GMT
No idea on this one. I can’t even remember the last time I played Orcs and goblins
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Feb 19, 2021 10:05:48 GMT
This is the FAQ anechrome refers to: O&G Official Update Version 1.2, p.2: Q: Can a unit of Night Goblins that are concealing Fanatics be placed any closer than 8" to an enemy using the Hand of Gork spell? (p53/72) A: Yes, though you must follow all the normal rules for stopping to release the Fanatics from 8" away before you finish your move. This clarifies the rule on O&G Army Book, p.53: "Fanatics must be released when a concealing unit comes to within 8" of the enemy or vice versa. The moving unit stops immediately (fliers land). Once the Fanatic's movement has been resolved, the unit can continue moving, if the controlling player wishes, although chargers must complete their charge, unless panicked." Hence, it also applies vice versa. Basically, the FAQ indicates that you treat a unit moved by the Hand of Gork as a flier: - The unit stops and lands, if and when it comes within 8" of the concealing unit - The movement of the Fanatics is resolved - The unit continues its movement
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Post by anechrome on Feb 19, 2021 10:49:26 GMT
That's basically how I've red it aswell. HoG:ed units counts as flyers rulewise. It's the little detail about the flyers landing that has me bugged. It seems this was added so that the fanatics have a chance to hit the flyer (or am I missing something?), but how would you play this if the flyer or HoG:ed unit cannot land at that exact distance because of terrain? Would you let the fanatics ignore the terrain and just see if the distance is enough for it to reach the flyer, or would the flyer be safe since it cannot land? Both of these assume of course that the fanatic can touch the "landing" flyer without first hitting the terrain, as that would kill him.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Feb 19, 2021 16:35:18 GMT
Yes, the intent is clearly that flying units can be hit. The answer to your question is not covered in the rules as such. If the flying unit cannot land on the spot, there are really only two options: you stop 1" either before or after the obstacle. The first is based on the fact that normally units would stop 1" before an obstacle; the second on the precedent of fleeing units and magical vortices. I would prefer the second option, because in the first case, the unit normally cannot move any further, while in the second option the movement can continue, just like in the present case. It is also a bit more logical, because you will have passed the point where you have triggered the Fanatics.
BRB p. 25: "If the flee move would result in the fleeing unit ending up 'on top' of or within 1" of another unit or impassable terrain, then it carries on fleeing straight forward until it is past the obstruction, and will then halt."
Just replace "flee" by "fly" here.
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Post by anechrome on Feb 19, 2021 22:24:14 GMT
Not sure if that image will upload, but it demonstrates the situation I'm thinking of. Landing before or after the terrain wont matter since landing before will not trigger the fanatics and landing after will make them crash into the rock before reaching the flyer. In either case it doesn't have the desired effect of the fanatic being able to reach the flyer. Would it be way out of line to say that the goblins may hold of on tossing out the fanatics in a case like this...?
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Feb 19, 2021 23:01:53 GMT
Apparently, the picture did not upload.
- In both options, the Fanatics have already been triggered. Placing the flying unit before the obstacle is merely to deal with that practical problem, and does not somehow "untrigger" the Fanatics. However, as I said above, placing them after the obstacle seems a bit more logical, because you will have passed the point where you have triggered the Fanatics.
- The Night Goblins must release the Fanatics - there is no way around that. The fact that the Fanatics might not have the desired effect is no argument.
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Post by anechrome on Feb 19, 2021 23:27:03 GMT
No, I guess you're right since then they should be able not to release the fanatics towards ethereal units also, which would be way too powerful.
Well, I guess flyers and HoG are great ways to pull fanatics then, if the terrain is in your favor.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Feb 20, 2021 8:51:49 GMT
I do not exactly know what situation you have in mind, but, while the Fanatics are triggered, there is no need for them to be destroyed, in any case.
O&G AB p. 53: "you may choose the direction in which it travels, and the point on the concealing unit from which it starts."
You can try to position them in such a way that they can attack in your turn.
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Post by anechrome on Feb 20, 2021 11:17:52 GMT
Um, I tried to read up on uploading images and from what I can see, we're not allowed to attach files directly on the forum, unless they are hosted somewhere else...?
So I did this perfect depiction of the situation. (waiting for applause). This would be a situation where your best bet probably is dropping the fanatics into the T=Terrain since putting them anywhere else would be worse and you still will not be able to hit the flyer assuming that both the startingpoint of the flyer is more than 8" away and the landing point is more than 12" away.
Doom BSB Rock Diver Bunker Lobba Flyer Ends Here Orcs Orcs Night TTT Boyz Boyz Goblins TTTTTT TTTTTTT TT 8"markTTT TTTTTTTT TTTTTTTTTTT TTTTTTTTT TTTTT Enemy Enemy Flyer Unit Unit Starts Here
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Feb 20, 2021 12:14:59 GMT
As I was trying to indicate in my previous post, there is a better option. Nothing in the rules actually compels the Fanatics to try and reach the enemy unit that triggered the release. The fact that flying units must land just gives you the possibility to attack them. To repeat O&G AB p. 53: "When a Fanatic is released, you may choose the direction in which it travels, and the point on the concealing unit from which it starts."
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Post by anechrome on Feb 20, 2021 13:58:10 GMT
What's the better option in the given scenario?
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Feb 20, 2021 15:30:59 GMT
South east, along the impassable terrain, straight south in the direction of the starting position of the flyer, and/or a bit more south south west, in the direction of the enemy unit next to that. You would need to be extremely unlucky for one of your units to be hit by a Fanatic, next turn. The Fanatics may not harm the enemy either, but they may still deny terrain to him, or threaten his flank. And you will no lose their VP yet. Of course, if you are not prepared to take such a risk, then, perhaps, you should not take Fanatics?
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Post by anechrome on Feb 20, 2021 20:06:43 GMT
Hehe, in that scenario, if you'd release the fanatics south southwest, there is a 82,6% chance that the following would happen; No fanatic reaches the enemy. At the start of the greenskin turn the center orc unit fails animosity, rolls a 6, runs forward and hits the fanatics, takes just enough casulties for a panic test. Fails that even within a reroll from the bsb, flees towards the table edge which chain-panics both the orcs and the ngobs. Everyone runs away except for the warmachines which intead spontainiously combusts in solidarity with their former comrades in arms. And after all that, someone at the gaming club steals your entire army and your mother in law shows up from nowhere and stays the night.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Feb 20, 2021 21:34:35 GMT
Did you just roll 1 on your Animosity Test?
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