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Post by saniles on May 23, 2021 14:48:03 GMT
I can’t necessarily disagree with some of those points... but. A Yhetee is a 44pt model, min 3. So that’s 132pts to a unit which has zero protection and it’s primary target in my view would be something ethereal. I was reading the hexwraiths today... really the magical attacks just aren’t enough. The hexwraiths even have flaming attacks, so good night Yhetees. The hexwraiths would be a 5+ to hit and wound, but ones that happens. It’s 2W instead of one. The initiative of the yhetees is much better though, so maybe I’m wrong. I’m just not sure the reasoning is good enough... I admit the alternative isn’t awesome either though. Magic weapons on your characters is limiting in nature as well. But I might be better off making up a semi-killy Bruiser that solo charges. What do you all think about that? ------------Well, I think the Yhetees suffer from paper theory syndrome. Meaning, when players think about Yhetees, they get hung up on their vulnerabilities (Flammable/no save) and ignore them all together as a viable choice. But when you actually play them, they perform much better than you'd think. They make for excellent flankers as well because of how fast they move. Two units of Yhetees on each of your flanks is going to be concerning for the opponent. That’s fair. I can always try them out and see how they work as a pseudo-cavalry option |
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Yvain
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Post by Yvain on May 24, 2021 19:23:12 GMT
What  --------I get the fire vulnerability and no save is not popular, BUT they have some big advantages. 1. They are fast monstrous infantry (I think the fastest monstrous infantry that can't fly). Movement 7 and swift stride makes a big different on the battlefield. 2. Their combined special rules make give them the advantage over a lot of infantry and monstrous infantry. They strike a I4, and reduce the WS of the opponent by 1. They will strike a lot of units first on 3+'s to hit - which can really slaughter a lot of WS 3 (or lower) infantry and monstrous infantry (a lot of monstrous infantry are WS 3 or 4, giving Yhetees the advantage or equalizing the fight). 3. Magical Attacks come in handy, hence this thread topic!
My main problem with them is they fill in a niche army weakness. They have benefits like you say, but unless you are looking at the ideal scenario they are overshadowed by most other options. The WS issue is a good example. WS4 and WS4+ are fairly common. The -1 WS on attacks means against many opponents nothing changes. And defense it never does unless they WS2. Unless the Yhetees kill what they attack you are going to lose very quick because no defense. In most battles you will thus only have a few ideal engagements on the board.
You will a lot more mileage out of Mournfang and paying the extra 48 points isn't a hard ask. They hit just as hard if not harder cuz of the mount and will last significantly longer. That make Yhetees are hard sell to me.
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Post by mottdon on May 27, 2021 11:42:39 GMT
Personally, I think KevinC is correct in his assessment here. Everyone seems to only be considering the Yhetees in solo combat, when we should be considering them more like a Frostheart Phoenix. Combo them with an Ogre Bus for a crushing set. Place them on a flank (or both as KevinC suggests!) and immediately put your opponents in a real bind! Can you imagine having to grind through an Ogre Bus at -1WS? Dang! Not to mention the damage they're going to inflict.
As for defense, yes, flaming vulnerability is a SLIGHT concern, but really, how often do you see flaming attacks? And if you do, you know your target priority! Personally, I've always felt flaming attacks were overrated. Their biggest use is causing fear in most cases, which.... Anyway, if you're worried about their lack of protection, Trollguts.
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Yvain
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Post by Yvain on May 28, 2021 13:12:56 GMT
Personally, I think KevinC is correct in his assessment here. Everyone seems to only be considering the Yhetees in solo combat, when we should be considering them more like a Frostheart Phoenix. Combo them with an Ogre Bus for a crushing set. Place them on a flank (or both as KevinC suggests!) and immediately put your opponents in a real bind! Can you imagine having to grind through an Ogre Bus at -1WS? Dang! Not to mention the damage they're going to inflict. As for defense, yes, flaming vulnerability is a SLIGHT concern, but really, how often do you see flaming attacks? And if you do, you know your target priority! Personally, I've always felt flaming attacks were overrated. Their biggest use is causing fear in most cases, which.... Anyway, if you're worried about their lack of protection, Trollguts.
Flaming attacks are actually pretty common due to banner of the e flame which is 5 points. If someone is list tailoring, (not that I condone such cursed actions) you better believe can find five points vs your chonks.
The FP comparison isn't the same. FP is a fire and forget missile because of the fly and sweet ward save. It can choose its target and stop certain types of blocks for the entire game. Yhettes with their speed an swiftstride are fast, but no where near the same and are much more vulnerable to getting shot off.
Even at its best, the Yhettees aren't that much stronger than regular ogres. WS3 and S5 will do okay work. But against most units you are hitting on 3-4 wounding on 3-2, at best you are scoring 5 hits, with 3 more for impacts meaning you will typically score 7-8 wounds. Thats not bad, but is it enough to bully weak units. Anything basic with S4, you will lose one Yhette on the return attack. With the banner and ranks they are bound to have minus your stomps the yhettes are going to win the first round of combat by 1-2, but they will be steadfast and it likely wont matter. On follow up turns you will lose badly as you can only make 4 wounds and have trash leadership. Compare this to mournfang who get just as many attacks with a 2+ save.
The flank scenario is one of those ideal cases where they can shine, but how much do they really add? Again what Aura of Frost is really does is lets your own units hit better since the value of WS has no real bearing on defense. Against most elite infantry that would actually be a threat to your bus it wont have enough WS to have an effect. The dragon hide banner covers most of your reroll needs and with ASL its an auto take in the power chonk bus.
Can Yhettes do something in the game, yea most units even the crappy ones can. Will they lose you the game, no not really as a 150ish point unit isn't a make or break. Should you pay the extra points to get the upgrade to Mournfang like every time, mostly likely yes and if competitive, definitely yes
Should you buy them paint them and play with them for fun? also yes, but don't try to fool me into thinking they aren't a niche meh subpar choice  |
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Post by KevinC on May 28, 2021 15:57:01 GMT
Personally, I think KevinC is correct in his assessment here. Everyone seems to only be considering the Yhetees in solo combat, when we should be considering them more like a Frostheart Phoenix. Combo them with an Ogre Bus for a crushing set. Place them on a flank (or both as KevinC suggests!) and immediately put your opponents in a real bind! Can you imagine having to grind through an Ogre Bus at -1WS? Dang! Not to mention the damage they're going to inflict. As for defense, yes, flaming vulnerability is a SLIGHT concern, but really, how often do you see flaming attacks? And if you do, you know your target priority! Personally, I've always felt flaming attacks were overrated. Their biggest use is causing fear in most cases, which.... Anyway, if you're worried about their lack of protection, Trollguts.
Flaming attacks are actually pretty common due to banner of the e flame which is 5 points. If someone is list tailoring, (not that I condone such cursed actions) you better believe can find five points vs your chonks.
The FP comparison isn't the same. FP is a fire and forget missile because of the fly and sweet ward save. It can choose its target and stop certain types of blocks for the entire game. Yhettes with their speed an swiftstride are fast, but no where near the same and are much more vulnerable to getting shot off.
Even at its best, the Yhettees aren't that much stronger than regular ogres. WS3 and S5 will do okay work. But against most units you are hitting on 3-4 wounding on 3-2, at best you are scoring 5 hits, with 3 more for impacts meaning you will typically score 7-8 wounds. Thats not bad, but is it enough to bully weak units. Anything basic with S4, you will lose one Yhette on the return attack. With the banner and ranks they are bound to have minus your stomps the yhettes are going to win the first round of combat by 1-2, but they will be steadfast and it likely wont matter. On follow up turns you will lose badly as you can only make 4 wounds and have trash leadership. Compare this to mournfang who get just as many attacks with a 2+ save.
The flank scenario is one of those ideal cases where they can shine, but how much do they really add? Again what Aura of Frost is really does is lets your own units hit better since the value of WS has no real bearing on defense. Against most elite infantry that would actually be a threat to your bus it wont have enough WS to have an effect. The dragon hide banner covers most of your reroll needs and with ASL its an auto take in the power chonk bus.
Can Yhettes do something in the game, yea most units even the crappy ones can. Will they lose you the game, no not really as a 150ish point unit isn't a make or break. Should you pay the extra points to get the upgrade to Mournfang like every time, mostly likely yes and if competitive, definitely yes
Should you buy them paint them and play with them for fun? also yes, but don't try to fool me into thinking they aren't a niche meh subpar choice ----------I'm not trying to make you use or even like Yhetees, FYI. But I just think your analysis of them is wrong. I disagree about comparing them to Mournfang cav, they are two different troop types with totally different functions. By including Yhetees, I'm not suggesting to drop Mournfangs. Yhetees are better compared to other monstrous infantry. I see Yhetees as a unique kind of Monstrous Infantry due to their speed. They can be used as flankers, war machine hunters, or going after smaller units and ethereals (!) quite well. Regarding flaming attacks, equip your characters with the dragonhelm and the dragonbane gem, and maneuver them to ensure they are in combat with the flaming banner and not the Yhetees. That will make your opponent regret taking that banner. |
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Post by mottdon on May 29, 2021 20:55:43 GMT
Well, I'm not debating how easy it is to obtain flaming attacks, just saying not sure that they're useful. Only in a VERY few instances like Yhetees, TK or Tree-folk. If I have 5 points to spend, I'll use it on something else, like a Gleaming Pennant, Enchanted Shield, etc.
If you don't like Yhetees, that's fine. I just think they have more use than people give them credit for.
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Post by grandmasterwang on May 30, 2021 7:54:12 GMT
I tend to agree with KevinC on Yhetees. They have generally overperformed my expectations when I have used them.
Mournfangs are generally a better choice but that's because Mournfangs are really good for their points and one of the very best things in the Ogre army.
Yhetees function best imo when played kind of like the lore. Out away from the main ogre army doing their own thing. I don't think I've ever deployed them in the centre.
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Post by mottdon on May 30, 2021 13:41:00 GMT
I tend to agree with KevinC on Yhetees. They have generally overperformed my expectations when I have used them. Mournfangs are generally a better choice but that's because Mournfangs are really good for their points and one of the very best things in the Ogre army. Yhetees function best imo when played kind of like the lore. Out away from the main ogre army doing their own thing. I don't think I've ever deployed them in the centre. Well, out on the flanks IS where their speed would truly shine. Could even surprise some. One of those things you hate to devote you 1-2 turns of shooting to, instead of weakening the menacing bus that'll be the death of you if you don't deal with it quickly. |
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Post by saniles on May 30, 2021 13:56:37 GMT
I’ll try them out a few times and see what happens
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Post by TheREALricksalamone on May 30, 2021 19:18:24 GMT
I can’t necessarily disagree with some of those points... but. A Yhetee is a 44pt model, min 3. So that’s 132pts to a unit which has zero protection and it’s primary target in my view would be something ethereal. I was reading the hexwraiths today... really the magical attacks just aren’t enough. The hexwraiths even have flaming attacks, so good night Yhetees. The hexwraiths would be a 5+ to hit and wound, but ones that happens. It’s 2W instead of one. The initiative of the yhetees is much better though, so maybe I’m wrong. I’m just not sure the reasoning is good enough... I admit the alternative isn’t awesome either though. Magic weapons on your characters is limiting in nature as well. But I might be better off making up a semi-killy Bruiser that solo charges. What do you all think about that? ------------Well, I think the Yhetees suffer from paper theory syndrome. Meaning, when players think about Yhetees, they get hung up on their vulnerabilities (Flammable/no save) and ignore them all together as a viable choice. But when you actually play them, they perform much better than you'd think. They make for excellent flankers as well because of how fast they move. Two units of Yhetees on each of your flanks is going to be concerning for the opponent. I agree with KevinC and his take on Yhetees. When looking at their effectiveness, consider their threat level to an opponent who is probably looking at a big unit of ironguts, other ogre units, and cannon wagons. The yhetees in this force may slip through the cracks and surprise a flank. I include a unit of 3 in my 2400 point force alongside 2 units of 6 bulls and 10 guts. Regarding the green knight, combat res him with gnoblars, or grab a rear charge. |
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