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Post by bja5006 on Jun 17, 2021 0:18:46 GMT
Good evening,
Looking for some feedback on a take-all-comers Empire army, due to play a 3-game tournament in a couple months. I don't know which armies I'll be up against. I have a decent collection, so I may be able to swap things out if suggested. Thanks in advance!
Lords:
Arch Lector on War Altar. Bare bones.
Level 4 wizard. Dispel Scroll, Talisman of Preservation. Suggestions on which Lore?
Heroes:
Captain on Pegasus full plate, shield Dragon Helm, Sword of Strife (+2A)
Captain BSB full plate, shield Dawnstone, Enchanted Shield, Helm of the Skavenslayer (fear and 1+ rerollable save)
Master Engineer
Core:
51 Halberdiers. full command
10 Inner Circle Knights. Lances and shields. full command
10 Archers (wizard bunker)
Special:
30 Greatswords. full command
5 Pistoliers. musician
Rare:
Helblaster Volley Gun
Steam Tank
2400 pts on the nose.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Jun 17, 2021 11:31:22 GMT
Do you have a strategy that underpins the army? Whether you do or not, I recommend having a look at Holy Hand Grenade's Griffon Formation. Bare bones on the Arch Lector? You do know that the ward save of the War Altar does not cover the Arch lector anymore? And if the AL is killed, the WA loses much of its lustre. At the very least, give him HA and shield, and perhaps the Shrieking Blade. Consider the Speculum: if he is attacked, he may find more safety in a challenge, or, if it is refused, he can get rid of at least one character. What is your plan with the Captasus? Does he need the Sword of Strife for that, or are other items more suited? I am not too keen on Greatswords - too expensive for my taste. One of our best units are the Demigryph knights. Indeed, if the simulation by NIGHTBRINGER is correct, they are even better than I imagined. The simulation is for CC, but thanks to their 1+ AS, DGK are also comparatively well placed to deal with shooting and magic.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Jun 18, 2021 22:58:26 GMT
And I forgot to add: you cannot take the Enchanted Shield with another piece of Magic Armour - that was 6th edition.
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Post by bja5006 on Jun 24, 2021 0:58:34 GMT
Thanks for the feedback!
I removed the Helm of Skavenslayer to make the BSB legal. However, I swear there is a kit-out that gives him a 1+ rerollable save. Am I missing something simple?
The general strategy for the army is to be well-rounded, and not focus too much on artillery and shooting. I don't have any Demi Knights unfortunately. I have swordsmen, handgunners, and crossbowmen that I've used as detachments for the halberdiers in the past. I just like my Greatswords, and if I pull them in favor of detachments or artillery, then the War Altar's bubble effect loses its lustre. I'm trying to build the army around the War Altar; it's my most recently painted model and was converted/built from scratch. I quite like it and haven't used it yet. I'm not trying to be super competitive or beardy, I just don't want a list that has obvious errors and sets me up for failure.
For the Captasus, I plan to use him to hunt chaff and war machines, hence the sword for extra attacks. I don't want him to linger in a combat against small units.
I gave the AL heavy armour and shield, and am trying to squeeze in the Speculum, although ideally he stays out of combat (ideally...). Perhaps if I can tone back the Captasus' magic item points, I can fit it.
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Post by knoffles on Jun 24, 2021 12:30:56 GMT
I’ve most often seen the war altar used as part of a council of light. The level 4 also takes light, backed up by at least one, usually 2, low level light wizards to allow two high level banishments a turn. The halbadier block also benefits from a lot of the lores buffing spells.
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Post by bja5006 on Jun 25, 2021 21:22:14 GMT
Ok, so knoffles inspired me to try to fit a light council in, making the War Altar a little more useful. And the Arch Lector is a bit better equipped. List is now:
Lords:
Arch Lector on War Altar -heavy armour, shield, Talisman of Preservation
Level 3 wizard. Dispel Scroll, Talisman of Endurance (5++), lore of Light
Heroes:
Captain on Pegasus full plate, shield, Sword of Striking
Captain BSB full plate, shield Dawnstone, Enchanted Shield
Battle Wizard Lvl 1. Lore of light
Battle Wizard Lvl 1. Lore of light
Core:
51 Halberdiers. full command
10 Inner Circle Knights. Lances and shields. full command
10 Archers (wizard bunker)
Special:
30 Greatswords. full command
5 Pistoliers. musician
Mortar (i just love the thing. it's won me several games)
Rare:
Steam Tank
2398 pts
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Jun 26, 2021 19:54:25 GMT
To answer your earlier question: I think the only way for an Empire character on foot to get a 1+ AS would be the Armour of Meteoric Iron. In the previous edition, it cost 25 points, and was a no-brainer. For the current 40 points, I think it is too expensive, even with the added 6++. Some remarks regarding the Council of Light: - Note that Banishment increases its Strength with "the number of Wizards that know spells from the Lore of Light within 12" of the caster (not counting the caster himself)." However, the AL is not a Wizard - he will benefit from the number of Light Wizards, but not vice versa. Also, if the AL is killed, the WA on its own cannot cast any spells. A very big plus: as the War Altar Banishment is an innate bound spell, a miscast will not do any damage. Those factors lead to different strategies, as discussed in an earlier thread: This is a very good point. Only Light Wizards can add +1S to the Banishment spell. So it really comes down to a casting order decision for the Empire player. Cast Banishment from the Lv4 wizard (who would get the +4 wizard level to add to his casting total at S6) or from the War Altar (casts with only the total on your Power Dice roll, only needing a 4, but making it easier for your opponent to dispel since he will get to add his wizard levels to his dispel attempt, but it also is at S7). The War Altar is more sure to take down those big bad targets (monsters, high Toughness characters, etc.) but the Wizard will give you a higher casting total, making it more difficult to dispel. (Note that I didn't say that it would be easier to cast, only because the War Altar's Banishment has a casting total of 4, making it possible to cast on 1 dice, 2 reliably. This could be a reason for holding it until the end.) One good strategy would be to throw out 6 dice at Banishment from the War Altar, hoping for a irresistible force, and ensure you have a strong spell, that suffers no miscast. If it doesn't get IF, then it puts your opponent into a tough decision as to try and stop a 6-dice roll, or throw out their Dispel Scroll. This decision is compounded by the fact that the Lore of Light has the lowest casting spells in the game, so you get more mileage out of your Power Dice. Your could potentially get a lot of smaller spells off with fewer PD.And with things like the Hurricanum and Luminark providing +1 PD and DD, as well as at least 4 channeling attempts from 3 Light Wizards and the Arch Lector, your chances to generate additional PD is really good. Unless you are facing some magically oriented armies (like Vampire Counts, Lizardmen, etc.) you should be able to outclass your opponent in the casting dice department. Another strategy would be to cast Banishment from your Lv4 first, and bar your Wizard just rolling incredibly unlucky, this should draw out a Dispel Scroll rather quickly, leaving the door open for the War Altar and other minor spells. I'd probably follow up with a few of the minor Light Spells, that will more than likely be let through (Shem's Burning Gaze, Pha's Protection, etc.) since they'll be waiting for that War Altar Banishment spell (so be sure to save at least 2 PD for it). Those are just two quick strategies that revolve around a Light Council build. Yes, those are two good strategies, and I should think they depend on the available targets. If you have a HVAT you might kill in one go, you should go for the first option. If there is no such target available ( e.g. because it is in CC, or hidden within a unit), then go for option 2. You do not even have to start with Banishment, then. Depending on the situation, Pha's Protection, Birona's Timewarp, or the Net of Amyntok may be more important spells. - I would find the extra points for a Wizard lvl 4. 35 points for an extra spell, and +1 to cast/dispel is a bargain anyway. Remember: you may want to 6-dice Banishment with the War Altar, and may not have many dice left for other spells, in which case the +1 could make the difference between cast or failure. Make sure to get Birona's Timewarp and Speed of Light on your Lvl 4 Wizard. He does not really need Light of Battle. - Give the Dispel Scroll to a lvl. 1. The lvl 4 will normally try to dispel, but if he fails, he cannot dispel anymore - which means he cannot use the Scroll either. - Remember that the AL on WA is a Large Target, and his Ld bubble is 18". You will want to have the WA in the centre, but usually, it is very difficult to keep a tight formation, and you may need to shift it according to the threat. Note that because of its footprint, simply turning it sideways may be enough - although that could mean the AL does not have any targets in LoS/forward arc to cast banishment. And since we are on the subject: Staying with the topic of FAQ, here is one that is as correct as it is irrelevant. Official Update Version 1.2, p 2 Q: Does the War Altar of Sigmar confer the Stubborn special rule to any character mounted upon it? (p47) A: No. Now, this is correct, since Stubborn is not listed on BRB 82 as one of the special rules conferred from mount to rider. However, it is also irrelevant, because Break tests are not taken by the character, but by the combined unit, and the combined unit is affected by the Stubborn special rule. The same principle applies e.g. to the Larget Target special rule. The War Altar will not confer the Large Target special rule to the character mounted upon it, but that is irrelevant, because one does not shoot at the character, but at the combined unit, and the combined unit is affected by the Large Target special rule. Note also that the War Altar on its own will not be able to use the Stubborn special rule that often. The War Altar does not have a crew, and has itself no Leadership value. The only way to benefit from Stubborn would be by using the General’s Ld through the Inspiring Presence special rule. However, if you take the AL on WA, the General will usually be the Arch Lector himself (at least in normal games), and once the AL is dead, the WA will not be able to use the Stubborn special rule at all. - If you need extra points, drop the Mortar. I myself was very much in favour of Mortars in earlier editions, but not now. It does have it uses against low T horde armies, but if you do not know what you are up against, it is unlikely to be worth its points.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Jun 27, 2021 11:20:49 GMT
To add: make the Archers a Detachment for either Greatswords (preferably) or the Halberdiers. There is no drawback (except perhaps deployment, but I should no think in this case), and they may benefit from the Detachment special rule, while the bubble for the Hatred/Battle Prayers of the AL on WA would increase to 9". As a Detachment of the Greatswords, they may also benefit from Stubborn.
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