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Post by anechrome on Aug 19, 2021 16:55:26 GMT
anechrome : Yes, a random mover can pivot within 1". For one: "This rule is purely for clarity" (BRB p. 10) - it is not to impede movement that would otherwise be possible. Secondly, Random Movement is governed by its own 1" rule, where enemy units are conspicuously missing (BRB p. 74): "If the random move brings the unit to within 1" of a friendly unit or impassable terrain, it stops immediately and cannot move further during that Movement phase." Right you are! Does that work the same with warmachines? Could they pivot inside 1" of enemy models in order to fire and then be pushed back/away? |
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Post by Horace on Aug 19, 2021 17:20:29 GMT
In my book, that is a perfectly legal charge (well, perhaps not perfectly). However, the beast must close the door, since there are no obstacles preventing him to do so. Strictly speaking, the pivot itself should not yet bring the beast into btb, since you first pivot, roll the dice, and then measure whether an enemy unit will be contacted, before moving the random mover. In this case, it is, of course, rather obvious. On a side note: there are many players who are very liberal with RAI>RAW (and where the alleged intent ran clearly counter to the wording of the rules), but quite anal (to keep with the Freudian theme) about the 1" rule, one of the few rules where the intent is explicitly stated: "This rule is purely for clarity. It's important to be able to tell at a glance where one unit stops and another begins (BRB p. 13)." If someone was being a dick about this the beast could pivot until it is 0.1mm from touching the enemy, then roll |
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Aug 20, 2021 9:16:09 GMT
Right you are! Does that work the same with warmachines? Could they pivot inside 1" of enemy models in order to fire and then be pushed back/away? Yes. The 1" rule applies to moving units, but the war machine pivot does not count as moving. Some may feel this argument is too legalistic, but I am an attorney-at-RAW, after all.. BRB p. 13: "Whilst moving, a unit is not allowed to approach closer than 1" to another unit, friend or foe, or impassable terrain." BRB p. 109: "before you fire the war machine, pivot it to face your chosen target (this doesn't count as moving)." |
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Aug 20, 2021 13:29:36 GMT
To add: the rules allow you some leeway, but don't make it a case of "give an inch, take a mile." It is one thing if you are 5mm inside the 1", it is quite another if you are almost touching the enemy unit, just to squeeze out the last shot.
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Post by anechrome on Aug 20, 2021 14:22:17 GMT
Right you are! Does that work the same with warmachines? Could they pivot inside 1" of enemy models in order to fire and then be pushed back/away? Yes. The 1" rule applies to moving units, but the war machine pivot does not count as moving. Some may feel this argument is too legalistic, but I am an attorney-at-RAW, after all.. BRB p. 13: "Whilst moving, a unit is not allowed to approach closer than 1" to another unit, friend or foe, or impassable terrain." BRB p. 109: "before you fire the war machine, pivot it to face your chosen target (this doesn't count as moving)." Ah, so they are actually not pushed 1" apart until the end of the next movementphase then, since the pivot is not a move? |
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Post by quenelles84 on Apr 25, 2023 11:50:47 GMT
Clarification request:
I put my griffin directly adjacent to Steam Tank (middle of its flank)
I think this means the steam tank can barely pivot (as it can come within 1”, but can’t touch my Griffins base (unless it’s charging, but this would fail as it’s making contact with wrong frontage)
So basically it it’s railroaded.
Correct ?
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Post by rahotep75 on Apr 25, 2023 13:47:12 GMT
Clarification request: I put my griffin directly adjacent to Steam Tank (middle of its flank) I think this means the steam tank can barely pivot (as it can come within 1”, but can’t touch my Griffins base (unless it’s charging, but this would fail as it’s making contact with wrong frontage) So basically it it’s railroaded. Correct ? Yes, by the rules, it is railroaded. Several events and composition packs have labeled this as poor sportsmanship as it’s considered an abuse of an oversight in the rules. |
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Post by thegoat on Apr 25, 2023 16:23:01 GMT
Clarification request: I put my griffin directly adjacent to Steam Tank (middle of its flank) I think this means the steam tank can barely pivot (as it can come within 1”, but can’t touch my Griffins base (unless it’s charging, but this would fail as it’s making contact with wrong frontage) So basically it it’s railroaded. Correct ? By the letter of the rulebook, yes you are correct. If an opponent ever used that strategy in a game, that would be the last time I play against them. It is obviously not how the game is supposed to be played. |
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pete
New Member
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Post by pete on Apr 25, 2023 19:43:09 GMT
Actually, if the griffin is 1 inch away and back far enough that the Steam Tank can’t pivot to get its front corner into base contact, that leaves about 45 degrees of pivot in each direction.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Apr 25, 2023 21:00:57 GMT
What pete says, because, as quoted before, "this rule is purely for clarity." As an Attorney-at-RAW, I cannot fault anyone using the existing rules, even if it seems cheesy. That said, actual railroading could be stopped in its tracks in any case, since the Steam Tank does not need to move, and can elect to stay put. In its turn, the Steam Tank could then pepper the Griffon with 4 S4 ranged attacks from the Steam Gun and the Repeater Pistol of the Engineer (aside from attacks by other friendly units), and might still be able to fire the Steam Cannon at a worthwhile target, if it happened to be there. Note also that, as I have pointed out before, other Random Movers that do have to move, can still aim for a failed charge, leaving them at least the option to stay put. Granted, it is a limited option, but it also means they can be "railroaded" in the strict sense of the term. |
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Post by johngg on May 4, 2023 16:46:53 GMT
If someone was being a dick about this the beast could pivot until it is 0.1mm from touching the enemy, then roll wedgie them Fixed that for you  |
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