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Post by KevinC on Oct 25, 2021 4:11:01 GMT
Check out my first draft of the Dogs of War army list for 8th edition. Like the original Dogs of War book, the supplement can be used in two ways - either as a full army list OR to hire famous Regiments of Renown for any Warhammer army. All your old favorite units are there! Note: this supplement is suggested for mature readers.Any thoughts or feedback it appreciated. Thanks! Dogs of War Playtest Draft List 1.pdf (205.05 KB)
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Post by wilsonthenarc on Nov 7, 2021 14:30:28 GMT
Giving this a read right now over a Sunday morning cup of coffee. Very excited.
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Post by dannytee on Nov 22, 2021 16:59:35 GMT
I have been reading through this, very cool content. Here are some comments and questions I have. I will likely post a few times as I work through the book.
•The “Treacherous” rule at the Treacherous Table result 1-3, I think the intent is if they have no missile weapon they still make this shooting attack with junk they find on the battle field. That makes sense, but I think it should be clarified if the shooting attack is still made if the unit has no missile weapon. Also, if they have no missile weapon and do still make this attack, what is the strength and range? Also is line of sight ignored, in other words is a shooting attack made if no friendly unit is in the front arc (so just closest)?
•Wasn’t the halfling hot pot from dogs of war army book? If so what do you think about adding that in? I don’t see it.
•There are multiple special characters which must be the army general if included. Maybe I am getting too nit-picky but I wonder if it should be spelled out that these characters can’t be included in the same army (if that is in fact your intent). I am just pointing out things like this as I don’t find the answer to be clear, so I imagine others may have the same question.
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Post by dannytee on Nov 22, 2021 18:37:00 GMT
•Mydas The Mean and paymaster, I am wondering about armor save. Between the wagon and horses drawing it maybe that should be increased by 1, like cavalry. If so should include some text to state this.
• I’m not a human army player so don’t have a lot of experience here but my gut feeling is Tilean Crossbowmen are overpriced. I think empire ones are 3 points less for same stats (but maybe I am wrong, I don’t have access to the empire book to check right now).
•Hired Thugs are WS 4, doesn’t feel right to me, when it comes to humans WS 4 is for elites (like the Renegade Knights or Paymaster’s Body Guard). Of course fluff isn’t written yet and that may provide a way to explain this.
•Are Hobgoblins typically WS4? I have no idea, caught my attention, not saying they shouldn’t be, just wasn’t sure.
•Norse Berserkers, I’m feeling like additional hand weapons should be an equipment option. I don’t think they are unbalanced like that, as their point cost is not cheap, so I don’t think they become broke like that.
•Galloper Gun the “Cannon Carriage” rule, I think it is implied, but with rules like this there is usually text stating ...may move (but not march) and fire... You currently don’t have the text about not marching. Not totally necessary, but I like to be as clear as possible.
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Post by dannytee on Nov 22, 2021 19:02:42 GMT
•I really like the D3+1 wounds for the Tilean Cannon. I think if all cannons would work that way there would be a lot less heartburn/rage/complaints (whatever you want to call it) from players about cannons.
•I think one unit should have the scout special rule or an option to upgrade to buy scout special rule. This could be 1 or 2 extra points and I could see it being on Halfling Rangers or Hired Thugs. In the case of the Thugs, as they are core, the upgrade should be 0-2.
•Do you have any plans for army specific magic items? I think that would be cool.
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Post by wilsonthenarc on Nov 22, 2021 22:15:10 GMT
I really like the D3+1 wounds for the Tilean Cannon. I think if all cannons would work that way there would be a lot less heartburn/rage/complaints (whatever you want to call it) from players about cannons. You'd think so - But nope. People be hatin' cannons, no matter what.
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Post by KevinC on Nov 22, 2021 22:41:52 GMT
I have been reading through this, very cool content. Here are some comments and questions I have. I will likely post a few times as I work through the book. •The “Treacherous” rule at the Treacherous Table result 1-3, I think the intent is if they have no missile weapon they still make this shooting attack with junk they find on the battle field. That makes sense, but I think it should be clarified if the shooting attack is still made if the unit has no missile weapon. Also, if they have no missile weapon and do still make this attack, what is the strength and range? Also is line of sight ignored, in other words is a shooting attack made if no friendly unit is in the front arc (so just closest)? ----------It's not an actual shooting attack and no one moves. The unit just takes damage. I'll take another look and make is more clear.•Wasn’t the halfling hot pot from dogs of war army book? If so what do you think about adding that in? I don’t see it. -----------I didn't include it. I'm completing an updated Halfling army list that includes units from Mantic's line of Halflings and so it will appear there.•There are multiple special characters which must be the army general if included. Maybe I am getting too nit-picky but I wonder if it should be spelled out that these characters can’t be included in the same army (if that is in fact your intent). I am just pointing out things like this as I don’t find the answer to be clear, so I imagine others may have the same question. ---------------------I could, but you can only have one general.Dan, thanks for the feedback, I'm replying to your comments in RED above...
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Post by KevinC on Nov 22, 2021 22:46:17 GMT
•Mydas The Mean and paymaster, I am wondering about armor save. Between the wagon and horses drawing it maybe that should be increased by 1, like cavalry. If so should include some text to state this. --------------His troop type is infantry, so no save bonus.• I’m not a human army player so don’t have a lot of experience here but my gut feeling is Tilean Crossbowmen are overpriced. I think empire ones are 3 points less for same stats (but maybe I am wrong, I don’t have access to the empire book to check right now). •Hired Thugs are WS 4, doesn’t feel right to me, when it comes to humans WS 4 is for elites (like the Renegade Knights or Paymaster’s Body Guard). Of course fluff isn’t written yet and that may provide a way to explain this. ------------Good point.•Are Hobgoblins typically WS4? I have no idea, caught my attention, not saying they shouldn’t be, just wasn’t sure. -----------Hobgoblins are usually WS3. But these hobgoblins are from the fierce warrior-tribes of the Hobgobla Khan in the Eastern Steppes. They are more skilled warriors than other Hobgoblins.•Norse Berserkers, I’m feeling like additional hand weapons should be an equipment option. I don’t think they are unbalanced like that, as their point cost is not cheap, so I don’t think they become broke like that. ---------Agreed.•Galloper Gun the “Cannon Carriage” rule, I think it is implied, but with rules like this there is usually text stating ...may move (but not march) and fire... You currently don’t have the text about not marching. Not totally necessary, but I like to be as clear as possible. -------------They are troop type chariot and chariots can never march.
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Post by KevinC on Nov 22, 2021 22:51:01 GMT
•I really like the D3+1 wounds for the Tilean Cannon. I think if all cannons would work that way there would be a lot less heartburn/rage/complaints (whatever you want to call it) from players about cannons. ------------Without changing the cannon rules, I wanted to include a cannon that was not as good as the Empire cannon and that was more balance. This is what I came up with. I rather like it too.•I think one unit should have the scout special rule or an option to upgrade to buy scout special rule. This could be 1 or 2 extra points and I could see it being on Halfling Rangers or Hired Thugs. In the case of the Thugs, as they are core, the upgrade should be 0-2. ----------I didn't want to do that for Halflings because that's available in the Halfling army list and the Fighting Cocks are scouts. Maybe the upgrade for Thugs...but you can get such a unit through Regiments of Renown...•Do you have any plans for army specific magic items? I think that would be cool. -----------Maybe I will then... Originally, I was thinking the Regiments of Renown with their own characters (some with magic items) should replace the magic item list.
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Post by thegoat on Nov 22, 2021 23:20:03 GMT
•Are Hobgoblins typically WS4? I have no idea, caught my attention, not saying they shouldn’t be, just wasn’t sure. -----------Hobgoblins are usually WS3. But these hobgoblins are from the fierce warrior-tribes of the Hobgobla Khan in the Eastern Steppes. They are more skilled warriors than other Hobgoblins.Mundane Goblins are WS2. All Hobgoblins are already elite goblins. That is why they are WS3. I think a Hobgoblin unit with WS4 is too much. Maybe +1 Initiative instead? Or give the unit a special rule. How about Armor piercing attacks?
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Post by KevinC on Nov 24, 2021 4:52:18 GMT
Mundane Goblins are WS2. All Hobgoblins are already elite goblins. That is why they are WS3. I think a Hobgoblin unit with WS4 is too much. Maybe +1 Initiative instead? Or give the unit a special rule. How about Armor piercing attacks? --------All I can say is, I've been writing my own rules for WFB Hobgoblins for over 20 years (yes, really!). And when it comes to the Khanate Hobgoblins of the Steppes, I've tried many different iterations. In more recent times I've given them quick to fire and also armour piercing. Ultimately I've decided those just didn't seem quite right and I don't want to give them additional special rules. Modifying a profile characteristic is much more elegant design in many ways. Hobgoblins have been around since 1st edition and they have gone through many different changes over the years as far as their official rules in WFB. Don't think of them as elite Goblins because they are not. They are their own race. For a time they were T4 like Orcs. Oglah Khan's Wolf Boyz were WS4 in 5th edition and I fell back to that interpretation. WS 4 gives the feel that they are brutal warrior marauders. I really like the WS 4 on them and I probably won't change that.
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Post by grandmasterwang on Nov 24, 2021 9:44:54 GMT
Mundane Goblins are WS2. All Hobgoblins are already elite goblins. That is why they are WS3. I think a Hobgoblin unit with WS4 is too much. Maybe +1 Initiative instead? Or give the unit a special rule. How about Armor piercing attacks? --------All I can say is, I've been writing my own rules for WFB Hobgoblins for over 20 years (yes, really!). And when it comes to the Khanate Hobgoblins of the Steppes, I've tried many different iterations. In more recent times I've given them quick to fire and also armour piercing. Ultimately I've decided those just didn't seem quite right and I don't want to give them additional special rules. Modifying a profile characteristic is must more elegant design in many ways. Hobgoblins have been around since 1st edition and they have gone through many different changes over the years as far as their official rules in WFB. Don't think of them as elite Goblins because they are not. They are their own race. For a time they were T4 like Orcs. Oglah Khan's Wolf Boyz were WS4 in 5th edition and I fell back to that interpretation. WS 4 gives the feel that they are brutal warrior marauders. I really like the WS 4 on them and I probably won't change that. As these are the Khan's special Hobgoblins I like the WS4 for them which suits the lore and puts them above the downtrodden Chaos Dwarf serving hobgobbos. I see it as matching the WS4 on a 7 point Beastmen Gor.
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