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Post by wilsonthenarc on Mar 3, 2017 13:07:27 GMT
Thanks Horace If I need it, I'll PM you. For right now, I'll browse around to buy the Glottkin book. I'll end up using those rules with the added Tzaangor Skyfire minis that KevinC recently published rules for right here on this forum. A real hodge podge for sure! Plus, a giant turtle monster. More TBA!
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Post by grandmasterwang on Mar 4, 2017 2:58:55 GMT
Thanks Horace If I need it, I'll PM you. For right now, I'll browse around to buy the Glottkin book. I'll end up using those rules with the added Tzaangor Skyfire minis that KevinC recently published rules for right here on this forum. A real hodge podge for sure! Plus, a giant turtle monster. More TBA! Let's see this turtle monster! End times: Glottkin was a good publication by GW....Before the End times went to shit. It was a fantastic set of model releases also. Beastmen eefl style are imo in a pretty good spot now. The army is solid with a nice model range.
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Post by grandmasterwang on Mar 4, 2017 3:00:05 GMT
Regarding Glottkin and Beastmen I only use the marks and ignore eye of the God's and the Chaos table.
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Post by Anaris on Mar 7, 2017 17:07:23 GMT
Where is beast men eefl style?
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Post by wilsonthenarc on Mar 8, 2017 1:04:29 GMT
Where is beast men eefl style? Something like this, 2000 point list: -- [340] Demon Prince 1 235 Mark of Tzeentch 15 Third Eye 10 Chaos Armor 20 Scaly Skin 20 Flight 40 -- [175] Gor Herd QTY 15 7ea, Shields +1 Mark of Tzeentch +2. Command 25 [175] Gor Herd QTY 15 7ea, Shields +1 Mark of Tzeentch +2. Command 25 [175] Gor Herd QTY 15 7ea, Shields +1 Mark of Tzeentch +2. Command 25 -- [36] Ungor Raiders 6 [36] Ungor Raiders 6 -- [195] Tzaangor Skyfires 3; 65 -- [404] Minotaurs 6; 55 Additional HW +4. Command 50 -- [156] Centigors 5; 25 Great Weapons +2. Standard, Musician 21 -- [275] Ghorgon 1 275 Monster 275 --
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Post by dannytee on Mar 11, 2017 10:44:56 GMT
Where is beast men eefl style? I don't know much about beastmen but the general consensus of the management around here is that the Legions of Chaos army list from End Times Glottkin is a very good way to play beastmen. So there is really no need to write up our own set of rules for beastmen.
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Post by wilsonthenarc on Mar 11, 2017 14:52:05 GMT
dannytee Agreed. I think you are spot on. I have a PDF of the Glottkin and upon reading... it isn't as complex as I thought. I also have a maybe trade in the words to get a real honest-to-goodness hard copy of Glottkin. It won't be a "Gamer-Optimized" army yet, I have never actually played with Beastmen. I'll build 2000 to 2500 points and maybe get a game or 3 or 4 in, then start thinking: "OK, what's good? OK, what sucks?". So... My plan is to snap some pictures today and get a thread started for my Cathay/Nippon Beastmen!!! Lots of WIP stuff. I am very excited that due to heavy winds and general power grid loss in our area (but not me) - - All of my friends and family cancelled plans for this weekend. I really hope to put a dent into my pile of projects in the next 48 hours. Stretch goal would be to bring the Cathay/Nippon Beastmen to RIT on April 1st. It'll be a reach. We'll see.
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Post by dannytee on Mar 11, 2017 15:39:23 GMT
Stretch goal would be to bring the Cathay/Nippon Beastmen to RIT on April 1st. It'll be a reach. We'll see. It is actually U of R. Don't want you showing up to the wrong place!
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Post by wilsonthenarc on Mar 11, 2017 15:53:26 GMT
Hahahahaha, I would have been wandering the RIT campus with my 72 lb. army transport tray, gettin a workout. Thanks Dan, for the save.
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Post by frozenfood on Mar 19, 2017 11:14:44 GMT
How many points would you guys give to beastmen and bretonnia against e.g. orcs? An extra 200 points? What did they do at tourneys?
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Post by dannytee on Mar 19, 2017 16:58:33 GMT
Personally I have always been of the opinion that a set point value game should be just that so a 2,000 point game of any two given armies is no more than 2,000 vs. 2,000. The majority of tournaments that I played in back when they existed used this as well, so no bonus points for certain armies. However ETC rules (a few tournaments I have been to used ETC rules) do give a bonus to a few armies. From memory it was beastmen, tomb kings and orcs and goblins. I believe standard ETC games were 2,400 points and these three armies got 2,600. I could be a bit off on this but that was the general idea.
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Post by KevinC on Mar 19, 2017 18:05:28 GMT
Personally I have always been of the opinion that a set point value game should be just that so a 2,000 point game of any two given armies is no more than 2,000 vs. 2,000. The majority of tournaments that I played in back when they existed used this as well, so no bonus points for certain armies. However ETC rules (a few tournaments I have been to used ETC rules) do give a bonus to a few armies. From memory it was beastmen, tomb kings and orcs and goblins. I believe standard ETC games were 2,400 points and these three armies got 2,600. I could be a bit off on this but that was the general idea. ---------I pretty much strongly disagreed with ECT here. First off, there is nothing under-par with the O&G book. As for Beastmen and Tomb Kings, rather than giving them more points, you're better off to simply tweak them. For example, Beastmen monsters get a say 15% discount and Tomb Kings get a few modifications such as our Dark Tidings Tomb King errata. Even so, it's rewarding to take an underdog army and win with. I've played Goblin armies for decades now, and I've encountered many players who cannot believe they could lose against an "all-goblin" army (in various editions of WFB). Taking poor units/monsters/war machines and making them work has always been something I've found rewarding as a player. In fact, Tomb Kings interest me more than ever because of their under par army book. If players really want to win tournaments, they should not choose Tomb Kings or Beastmen to begin with. They should (and usually do) take Daemons, Vampire Counts, Skaven, Lizards, etc. They will be better off.
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Post by grandmasterwang on Mar 20, 2017 14:52:57 GMT
Agreed with the above 2 posts. I'm all for set points values when it's army vs army regardless of which armies they are. If it's a special scenario then different points values work but if it's a 'pitched battle' then same points for each side.
I agree with tweaking the army lists (see Jabberslythe Alpha/Druk in rules development) over adjusting the total points.
Side note but from what I read the etc system failed completely with TK/Beastmen as having more points meant they gave away more victory points so the system didn't really help them at all. I'm inexperienced with Bretonia so can't comment there.
Beastmen vs OnG is almost always a competitive and bloody battle. The two armies match up very well with each other. In certain ways the armies are quite similar.
Neither Beastmen or OnG were chosen by WAAC players at tournaments due to their 'lower tier' nature. OnG have more options than Beastmen but due to animosity were avoided by many serious tournament goers.
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Post by Horace on Mar 20, 2017 16:17:49 GMT
I am a firm believer that any army can beat any other army, you just need to get better with them. None of this changing points shenanigans. Some armies naturally face up better against some than others. Let's also not forget that it is a dice game fundamentally and if the dice are with or against you will swing things one way or another. Pray to the dice gods.
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Post by grandmasterwang on Mar 20, 2017 16:39:59 GMT
I am a firm believer that any army can beat any other army, you just need to get better with them. None of this changing points shenanigans. Some armies naturally face up better against some than others. Let's also not forget that it is a dice game fundamentally and if the dice are with or against you will swing things one way or another. Pray to the dice gods. That's the great thing about 8th edition! Any army truly can beat any other army! Sure some armies/army lists may be underdogs but they can absolutely pull it off! Regarding dice, I have a very solid win/loss record with my Tomb Kings despite running some crazy 'uncompetitive' lists. I don't know what it is but whenever I play them it's like like the luck (dice) are with me! For example my Sepulchral stalkers (terrible choice according to the 'internet') have never, ever failed to appear in over 20 games and I can only remember a single severe misfire with their shooting. Even the most 'uncompetitive' or 'weak' unit can occasionally pull of a miracle and that's what makes this game of ours so great!
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