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Post by larsen on Nov 22, 2021 16:54:13 GMT
I'm new to the game, played only a couple of casual games and loved it so much. I'm currently plotting my victory over various enemies. And I need your help.
1. The Screaming Bell casts spells without power dice (as stated in FAQ). Does it mean the Screaming Bell is essentially a free caster? Can an opponent dispell his spells? Are there any drawbacks for using the Screaming Bell? I only can see a minor chance of hurtunig your army with Deafening Peals, Apocalyptic Doom and doubles/triples.
2. What's the point of using Giant Rats? For massive units Slaves seem cheaper in points. And for blocking there are engineers, who too seem cheaper (15 points vs 23 points).
3. Engineer + Doomrocket Suicide March. Whole combo costs 45 points. It's 22 slaves, mind you! But the output damage, while huge -- is not so huge, and rather unpredictable. Which is OK for Skaven, I guess, but not as a one use only. Still, is it worth it? Why do people call it a cheese tactic?
4. Why do peolpe field 50 slaves in blocks 5 models wide 10 rows deep? Seems like it's better to make blocks 5 to 12 or even deeper -- so that slaves could boost their leadership to 10 all by themselfs, and act on their own outside of General's Inspiring Presence. Am I missing something?
5. I'm confused over FAQ and Army Book rules of Strength in Numbers, particulary over this statement: "Q: Is the Leadership bonus from Strength in Numbers limited to a maximum of 3? (p33) A: Yes."
What does FAQ mean by that? What Leadership bonus a maximum of 3?
Sorry if the questions are dumb, but I wasn't able to find any answers. I would appreciate any help!
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Post by thegoat on Nov 22, 2021 18:07:09 GMT
2. What's the point of using Giant Rats? For massive units Slaves seem cheaper in points. And for blocking there are engineers, who too seem cheaper (15 points vs 23 points). You're right Slaves are probably "better" points-wise. Every army book has some units that better value and some units that are worse value. But if you are doing a themed Clan Moulder list, you should have some Giant Rats for sure. 4. Why do peolpe field 50 slaves in blocks 5 models wide 10 rows deep? Seems like it's better to make blocks 5 to 12 or even deeper -- so that slaves could boost their leadership to 10 all by themselfs, and act on their own outside of General's Inspiring Presence. Am I missing something? The extra ranks ensure the slaves are Steadfast when they loose combat (which they will). 5. I'm confused over FAQ and Army Book rules of Strength in Numbers, particulary over this statement: "Q: Is the Leadership bonus from Strength in Numbers limited to a maximum of 3? (p33) A: Yes." What does FAQ mean by that? What Leadership bonus a maximum of 3? Strength in Numbers does not give a leadership bonus for extra ranks. Strength in Numbers gives a leadership bonus based on the unit's "rank bonus". Rank bonus (for combat resolution) maxes out at +3. Therefor so does Strength in Numbers.
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Post by DemolitionMan on Nov 23, 2021 14:27:39 GMT
1. They are not spells 'as such', and so no you can't dispel the screaming bell results. The exception is 9-10 Scorch, this casts as bound spell at power level 5, so your opponent can dispel it on a 5 or better. On the plus side this should draw out 2 dispel dice, or he lets it through and you have a free scorch. Which is a great spell tbh.
2. Personally the movement 6" means march 12", Where slaves are tarpits I use the giant rats as smaller units of re-directors, to engage the enemy chaff units and to run around after war machines as a last resort. They are quicker and more manoeuvrable. I think they have different roles but you are quite right to think slaves are better as a massed unit.
3. when it works, it works. When it doesn't.....it doesn't lol. I've faced it many times and for me it's no different to casting one of the big spells, everyone is happy to 6 dice purple sun, plus there's no guarantee it will do anything. I play fairly competitively, but I wouldn't take it at less than 2k. Our little circle has an unwritten rule of any game 2k or over is fair play, below that it's a friendly affair.
5. as mentioned above, you get a max of +3 to Ld, having 10 ranks won't give you +10 only +3.
Hope that helps!
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Post by larsen on Nov 23, 2021 14:55:33 GMT
Right, now I get it. Thank you.
What about the Screaming Bell? The rules say "In his magic phase, immediately after generating power dice, player can choose to ring the Screaming Bell". It is then clarifed in the FAQ, that Bell doesn't use power dice. So, this "choose" -- does it mean you have to choose between either ringing the Bell OR casting normal magic -- or you simply can choose to ring or not to ring, and regardless of the choice you can then cast normal magic?
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Post by larsen on Nov 23, 2021 15:35:08 GMT
Oh thanks, DemolitionMan. You posted the reply at the same time I reposted my question. Yes, that helps a lot!
Say, do you know anything about Monstrous Arcanum? I so desperately want to bring Brood Horror to game, but the rules say: "The monster is controlled through a Storm Of Magic Binding Scroll or taken as a mount". My model has no riders on it, just a single fat rat. What is this Magic Binding Scroll? I managed to find online only a murky copy of Monstrous Arcanum rules, and can't understand, how does it work. Who's to carry the scroll?
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Post by vulcan on Nov 23, 2021 15:44:33 GMT
On giant rats, using a minimum-size pack is 21 points. A wee bit more than an engineer, but doesn't come out of character points. It's also considered a touch less cheesy.
The Doomrocket Engineer works best with a Grey Seer who has skitterleap. You skitterleap the engineer to a spot where he has a nice line of fire straight down the main enemy battleline - ideally 21" from the juciest target - roll 6 dice to fire it, and wherever it lands it should hit something. For 45 points there's a good chance of gutting a mid-size unit and forcing panic checks. Works really well on low LD armies.
And... yeah, five wide by ten deep at least on slaves. This way they remain steadfast longer, the narrower frontage minimizes attacks on the unit, and the more time you have to heap in shooting and magic from other nearby units.
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Post by DemolitionMan on Nov 24, 2021 11:02:14 GMT
larsen, no problem mate :-). The Monstrous Arcanum is part of the 'storm of magic' supplement, I would heartily recommend buying this book if you can find it because it's hilarious and bat-s**t crazy to play! You also get to use huge armies including monsters and allies you normally wouldn't be able to use.....but it takes a whole day to play and I'd recommend playing normal games for a while to really get the hang of it all before going for storm of magic. Just use the brood horror as a hell pit abom for now, most people are cool with it
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Post by larsen on Nov 24, 2021 21:09:31 GMT
Thank you for the response, guys! I feel like Skaven army shouldn't rely too much on magic items. I'll give a Skitterleap tactic a try though, for the fun of it.
So, I found the Storm of Magic rulebook, and it really looks insane. But I'll use the advice to practice a lot before even attempting to play it.
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Post by vulcan on Nov 26, 2021 7:17:29 GMT
A related trick is to use a Brass Orb Warlock. Skitterleap him right next to a high-value, low I target like a Steam Tank and toss it. Even if he fumbles the throw and eats it himself, the template will still hit the target.
Skaven magic items can be quite potent. A Bonebreaker Warlord with a Fellblade can be very nasty monster-killer. The Stormbanner can protect your army from shooting while it crosses the table and gets into melee.
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Post by larsen on Nov 26, 2021 21:05:08 GMT
Brass Orb trick -- that is so evil! Will definetly try it.
Stormbanner -- yes, that will be my main defence against dwarfs and their artilery.
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Post by Horace on Nov 27, 2021 10:26:01 GMT
I wouldn't have any issues with someone using a bound monster in a regular game as long as it came out of rare or something.
The only real difference in a SoM game is that your opponent would have the chance to unbind the monster, but if the monster is in your proper points allowance I don't think it's an issue
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Post by larsen on Dec 1, 2021 16:34:05 GMT
Oh, ok. What about Wolf Rats? I found some models on sale online, even on square bases, but can't find anything other then AoS rules and fanmade 8th edition rules.
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Post by Horace on Dec 1, 2021 16:50:49 GMT
Same thing really. Wolf rats have proper rules in Monstrous Arcanum, page 56
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Post by larsen on Dec 1, 2021 21:34:44 GMT
Awesome! Thank you!
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Post by larsen on Dec 9, 2021 9:44:53 GMT
OK, this one may be even more stupid, but I terribly need a clarification.
So, Rule Book, page 84, "Swarms". Three rules mentioned on that page for the swarms: Skirmishers, Unbreakalbe, Squish! All is clear and understandable: swarms are fast, stupid and can run away and diminish. There's even a pictures of rat swarms on the page. Then, there is an italic font sentence, that states that there could be exeptions like Undead and Daemonic swarms.
And then, we have Rat Swarms in the Army Book, page 37. They have only two special rules listed: Unbreakable (Swarm) and Small. Logicaly I get that the Rat Swarm should be Skirmishers, Unbreakable, Squish-y, and Small.
It would be clearer to write in the Army Book just two things about Rat Swarm: they are Swarm and also they are Small. But no, there is this "Unbreakable (Swarm)". Why is the Unbreakable stressed like so? Is it because the Rat Swarm has only one special rule from Rule Book (Unbreakable, but not Skirmishers or Squish-y, which makes no sense for me)? Or it is just a reminder, like "Don't forget, they are unbreakable" (but why not remind about Squish and Skirmish then)? Or something else? Or am I overthinking this too much?
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