|
Post by bierbaron on Dec 9, 2021 10:16:54 GMT
This is a holdover from 7th edition. The Skaven book is written for the 7th edition of Warhammer, where the 8th edition rule "Unstable" was a part of the "Unbreakable" rule and not separate like in 8th edition. In that context, the AB rule "Small" for Rat Swarms also is not applicable anymore in 8th edition, as the concept of True Line of Sight is enforced. In 8th edition, as Rat Swarms are Swarms, they are Skirmishers, Unbreakable und Unstable (Squish!) according to their troop type.
|
|
|
Post by larsen on Dec 9, 2021 21:42:05 GMT
Thanks, Bierbaron! That clarifies a lot.
|
|
|
Post by vulcan on Dec 10, 2021 7:35:56 GMT
Probably an artifact of being a 7E/8E transition book. The 7E rules were slightly different.
|
|
|
Post by larsen on Dec 18, 2021 12:20:41 GMT
Yes, that seems to be the case.
I now carefully edit the Army Book rules using the FAQ. And I stumbled upon this horror: "Page 67 – Doomwheel, Rolling Doom, Loss of Control. Ignore the second paragraph". That second paragraph was all about the Doomwheel returning to the table if it left it during Loss of Control. So, no catch there? Is the Doomwheel that vulnerable to archers and it could now wander off the table till the end of the game because of some stupid arrows? The rules seem clear, I just can't believe it.
Also, I could swear I have read somewhere that the Doomwheel has one extra dice for movement while riding downhill. I thought that was a cool idea, but now I couldn't find it. It's not an AoS rule, not an 8th edition fanmade rule, nor did I find it in the FAQ, nor in the Chariot rules. Question is, did you, guys, seen anything like that?
|
|
|
Post by FvonSigmaringen on Dec 18, 2021 13:00:42 GMT
Regarding your first question, BRB p. 27 applies:
MOVING OFF THE BOARD Except in the case of fleeing troops (as discussed earlier) and pursuing troops (see the Close Combat Phase on page 56) units are not permitted to move off the board.
Since an Out of Control Doomwheel is neither fleeing nor pursuing, and the previous exemption in the second paragraph has been deleted, it simply cannot move off the board, but would stop 1" before the edge of the batlefield.
|
|
|
Post by larsen on Dec 19, 2021 7:04:03 GMT
Hell yeah, thank you!
|
|
|
Post by ryryak2 on Dec 23, 2021 21:02:11 GMT
... Is the Doomwheel that vulnerable to archers and it could now wander off the table till the end of the game because of some stupid arrows? The rules seem clear, I just can't believe it. ... Can I ask why you think the Doomwheel would be wandering off the table because of some shooting? The Doomwheel is Immune to Psychology which would prevent him from needing to take panic test from nearby enemies being destroyed, and you don't test for panic from wounds caused by shooting, only models lost in the unit (it's a unit of 1 so would never need to take that test). The only reason it should ever be running away is because it's broken in combat, as it still needs to take those test EDIT: - I'll leave this response here just so others can see it - I forgot about the loss of control test that the Doomwheel takes every time it takes a wound. That must be what you were talking about! ... Also, I could swear I have read somewhere that the Doomwheel has one extra dice for movement while riding downhill. I thought that was a cool idea, but now I couldn't find it. It's not an AoS rule, not an 8th edition fanmade rule, nor did I find it in the FAQ, nor in the Chariot rules. Question is, did you, guys, seen anything like that? That's a rule from the previous Skaven army book. They did away with it in the most current one.
|
|
|
Post by larsen on Dec 24, 2021 10:51:28 GMT
Oh OK, then, thank you. Pity they ruled it out from the 7th-8th editions. It made sense for Doomwheel to ride faster downhill.
|
|
|
Post by baaderthegreat on Dec 24, 2021 11:05:00 GMT
That's right. But then again, it would've also made sense that cavalry has problems charging uphill.
Or that units that are under constant hostile fire move slower because they have to hold their shields over their heads from time to time.
Warhammer isn't always that realistic.
|
|
|
Post by FvonSigmaringen on Dec 24, 2021 13:36:52 GMT
As far as I can tell, the Doomwheel never got an extra die for moving downhill. However, in the 4th edition Skaven Army Book, the Doomwheel moved at double rate downhill (counting each inch travelled as half an inch), but at half rate uphill (counting each inch travelled as two inches.)
|
|
|
Post by thegoat on Dec 24, 2021 15:33:23 GMT
Rules like that sound fluffy when you read it in the army book. But what counts as "moving uphill/downhill" is way too subjective. It would of coarse be highly dependent on the terrain the players put on the battlefield. That stuff is usually hand made, so 100% unique for every gaming group. In practice trying to interpret rules like that just leads to arguments during the battle. Better to remove rules like that.
Maybe if you used old GW style stepped hills it is clear when you are going up/down. But then there is no linear uphill/downhill distance as the hill is an instantaneous step function. So the Doomwheel would get double/half movement for one thirty-second of an inch? Not very useful.
|
|
|
Post by larsen on Dec 24, 2021 18:38:50 GMT
When you put it that way -- yes, you are right. Trying to figure out "uphill/downhill" sounds tedious. Maybe that was the reason GW excluded that rule. But -- to ram those terrified dwarf-things with a huge rat wheel rolling at full speed downhill -- that sounds like a lot of fun.
|
|
|
Post by Crazy_Dokta on Dec 24, 2021 23:43:45 GMT
(I don't want to clog with too many threads, so I'll ask question here. Hope no one minds) Hellpit abomination' "Too horrible to die". Last sentence "If any of the HPA's wounds were lost to flaming attacks, the beast is dead and no roll on the table is allowed". How it works? Does it mean 1)"lost wounds in this phase" (as for Regeneration) or 2)"lost wounds in any phase/turn, i.e ever during the game as a whole"? We always played as (2), but I always had doupts about it. Thank you in advance.
|
|
|
Post by FvonSigmaringen on Dec 25, 2021 9:50:45 GMT
As it says: "If any of the Hell Pit Abomination's wounds were lost to Flaming Attacks, the beast is dead and no roll on the chart is allowed." Since there is no limitation to a phase or turn, "any" means exactly that.
The Regeneration special rule (BRB p. 74), on the other hand, is very clear that it is only affected in a particular phase: "Wounds caused by Flaming Attacks (as described earlier in this section) cannot be regenerated, and if a unit is wounded by a Flaming Attack it loses the Regeneration rule for the remainder of the phase (it can be used later in the turn, though - it just takes a short time for the Regeneration to overcome the flames)."
|
|
|
Post by Crazy_Dokta on Dec 25, 2021 10:14:48 GMT
Somewhere in the dark corner, there's unhappy Abomination crying Thanks FvonSigmaringen
|
|