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Post by druchii1985 on Apr 5, 2022 12:29:29 GMT
Hi all,
I have been a Dark Elf player since 6th edition and restarted WFB recently learning 8th edition. I am new to DoC and plan my first battle against my buddy who plays Wood Elves.
It is the first time that I play a magic heavy list, so it is difficult to judge if this list has a proper chance. Fortunately, it is not a strong armour save army I will be facing. The goal is not to be very competitive, but a fun list with a fair chance to win.
Characters: 471 pts
Daemon Prince 390 pts Chaos armour, Daemon of Tzeentch, Daemonic Flight, Wizard level 2 -> a greater daemon in 1,500 pt would be too competitive for our games. I only gave him a lvl 2 magic, so he would not be too expensive as he will attract a lot of shooting and may not survive more than 2 turns.
The Blue Scribes 81 pts -> love the model and seems to add some unexpected magic punch to the list. If they are really bad, I could replace them with 2 flamers or make the DP lvl 4 magic, or other option.
Core: 410 pts
15 Pink Horrors 205 pts Standard bearer
15 Pink Horrors 205 pts Standard bearer -> 2 ranks and a standard to hold early attacks from fast chaff units.
The goal is to launch magic missiles and make the horror units grow into larger steadfast units, which should not be too hard against Woodies. With their magic missiles, they will first target skirmishers such as scouts or Warhawk riders.
Special: 360 pts
3 Flamers of Tzeentch 120 pts
3 Flamers of Tzeentch 120 pts -> additional shooting to force the woodies to come out of their defensive position. Will be used against non-skirmishers. Will avoid dryads (T4) in order not to improve their stats with regeneration.
3 Screamers of Tzeentch 120 pts -> I read on this forum that furies are much better, but they fit the Tzeentch theme well and I think Screamers may even work better against Woodies. Furies can only take a charge and die, whereas Screamers can hold off chaff units or harass them with slashing attacks.
Rare: 260 pts
Soul grinder 260 pts Daemon of Tzeentch -> the only punch unit next to the Daemon Prince. Goal is to use the Horrors and Flamers as anvils and attack the flanks with the Daemon Prince and Soul Grinder.
Total: 1.501 pts
Any comments or advice would be appreciated!
I also have some specific questions: - Which lore do you recommend for the Daemon Prince, metal or Tzeentch? - Can the blue scribes add something or are they only fluffy? - Keep the screamers or replace with Furies?
Looking forward to your thoughts!
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Post by druchii1985 on Apr 7, 2022 17:07:52 GMT
Hi all,
Maybe it is ridiculous to respond to my own post. My list is just a couple of days old and I already think I can do better. Basically, the daemon prince was reduced in points as I intend to use him as a combat character and then his magic is not very useful.
Instead, I added a unit of horrors and spent more points on flamers. With 3 casters, re-rolling on 1s and the blue scribes, I should get at least a couple of channeling dice and have the upper hand in the magic phase.
Characters: 361 pts
Daemon Prince 280 pts Chaos armour, Daemon of Tzeentch
The Blue Scribes 81 pts
Core: 420 pts
10 Pink Horrors 140 pts Standard bearer
10 Pink Horrors 140 pts Standard bearer
10 Pink Horrors 140 pts Standard bearer
Special: 460 pts
4 Flamers of Tzeentch 170 pts Champion (points left and BS5)
4 Flamers of Tzeentch 170 pts Champion
3 Screamers of Tzeentch 120 pts
Rare: 260 pts
Soul Grinder 260 pts Daemon of Tzeentch
Total: 1.501 pts
Still very keen to hear your thoughts!
Best regards,
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Post by Horace on Apr 10, 2022 9:19:45 GMT
Ok so my thoughts are Tzeentch is a tricky army to mono-god so kudos for trying. A LoC is not that much more OP than a DP, especially since you pay 400 points for it and it only comes in at a lvl2 wizard with not significantly different stats to a DP. If you play mono Tzeentch you get a pass for taking one.
The Blue Scribes are a funny one, at only 80 points they are cheap (although less so at only 1500 points) but only give you a random spell. At least it counts as a bound spell though which is better for miscasts.
You don't really have much in the way of units. You could get picked off by low grade BS shooting. You are also relying on those Pink Horror units for your magic/dispelling since you have dumped the magic levels off the DP.
I enjoy Flamers and Soul Grinders.
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Post by knoffles on Apr 10, 2022 18:27:52 GMT
There’s nothing wrong with replying to your own thread and posting multiple lists. List building is half the fun! Sadly I have m limited knowledge of deamons so can add very little to your posts
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Post by druchii1985 on Apr 10, 2022 19:47:52 GMT
Thanks for the feedback guys! Horace, I understand your points and decided to make a list with a LoC after all. It reduces the randomness compared to the Blue Scribes. I freed the points from dropping the Daemon Prince and the Blue Scribes, as well as fewer horrors. Not sure what I could do to get more Tzeentch themed units though. The only option I see, is to replace the screamers with furies. knoffles, your posts have already been a great source of inspiration for my beastmen. Making lists is indeed half the fun! Characters: 400 pts Lord of Change 400 pts Core: 401 pts 17 Pink Horrors 251 pts Standard bearer, Musician, Banner of Eternal Flame 10 Pink Horrors 150 pts Standard bearer, Musician Special: 440 pts 4 Flamers of Tzeentch 160 pts 4 Flamers of Tzeentch 160 pts 3 Screamers of Tzeentch 120 pts Rare: 260 pts Soul Grinder 260 pts Daemon of Tzeentch Total: 1.501 pts Other advice still welcome!
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Post by Naitsabes on Apr 11, 2022 6:34:52 GMT
List looks good. A lot will depend on getting the Soulgrinder into the right places, he is your best combat unit. I would try and find the 25 pts to get a lesser gift on the LoC (e.g. drop a flamer?). Then make that the Sword of Swift Slaying to get re-rolls against some things or at least remove the reroll from those elves. LoC is really more of a lover than a fighter but with this list he will have to get in combat and he'll need a little help. Also important for your spell selection, try not to get stuck with two magic missiles.
Good luck.
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Post by druchii1985 on Apr 16, 2022 8:58:13 GMT
Thank you Naitsabes. That was exactly one of my remaining thoughts. I freed the points by dropping two horrors. I am afraid that the randomness of only 3 flamers (3 D6 shots) will reduce the flamers‘ consistency too much: on average 10.5 vs.14 shots often hitting on 6s. Warpflame for further damage only triggers with at least one wound caused.
Characters: 425 pts
Lord of Change 425 pts Lesser gift (sword of swift slaying)
Core: 375 pts
15 Pink Horrors 225 pts Standard bearer, Musician, Banner of Eternal Flame
10 Pink Horrors 150 pts Standard bearer, Musician
Special: 440 pts
4 Flamers of Tzeentch 160 pts
4 Flamers of Tzeentch 160 pts
3 Screamers of Tzeentch 120 pts
Rare: 260 pts
Soul Grinder 260 pts Daemon of Tzeentch
Total: 1.500 pts
This will be the final list. I expect to playtest in a month or so and will let you know how it goes.
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Post by jukei on Apr 24, 2022 14:30:34 GMT
Hi.. If you play with end times rules you can maybe try something like this
++ End Times (Daemons of Chaos [1,495pts] ++
+ Lords [680pts] +
Daemon Prince [280pts]: Chaos armour [20pts], Daemon of Tzeentch [10pts]
Lord of Change [400pts]: Lore of Tzeentch, Wizard Level 2
+ Core [375pts] +
Pink Horrors of Tzeentch [225pts]: Lore of Tzeentch, 15x Pink Horror of Tzeentch [195pts], Wizard Level 1 . Musician [10pts] . Standard Bearer [20pts]: BRB - Banner of Eternal Flame [10pts]
Pink Horrors of Tzeentch [150pts]: Lore of Tzeentch, Musician [10pts], 10x Pink Horror of Tzeentch [130pts], Standard Bearer [10pts], Wizard Level 1
+ Rare [150pts] +
Burning Chariot of Tzeentch [150pts]
+ Special [290pts] +
Flamers of Tzeentch [170pts]: Champion [10pts], 4x Flamer of Tzeentch [160pts]
Screamers of Tzeentch [120pts]: 3x Screamer of Tzeentch [120pts]
I don't like The Soul grinder. Sometimes I played also 2 of them in a 2400 pts list ( I was always disappointed ...but It s just my 2cent) Have fun with tzeentch !
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Post by johngg on Apr 28, 2022 9:46:43 GMT
Hey Druchii1985 great to have you here. Looking forward to talking all things blood and murder on the Druchii page.
So about Tzeentch, firstly don't think ANYTHING is OP when building a mono-Tzeentch army. it is VERY challenging. In fact, take Jukei's advice and play wit eh End Times 50% character allocation, because lets face it, your Monster characters are the only real combat threat we have.
A couple of comments to keep in mind.
a 10 'man' pink horror unit is going to die very quickly and just give up VPs, especially with that standard in there. And what is the unit actually doing? maybe giving you a channelled dice twice a game? It's not going to be casting any devestating magic and ccertainly will ot hold up in any combat.
I'm a big fan of flamers but a unit of 4 only need to take one casualty before its having to start takeing instability tests. Also you'll find that a unit of 4 on its own won't put out enough damage. I'd advice merging the two units and upgrading to a Pyrocaster.
As for the rest
3 screamers, great. Get them in the back field and go hunting. Soul grinder great. this guy is basically your distraction Carnifex, so you him to devestating effect.
Really looking forward to seeing how you get on!
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Post by druchii1985 on Nov 6, 2022 14:21:19 GMT
Hi all,
Thank you for the advice guys. This battle took longer to plan than expected, but it finally happened a couple of weeks ago. This became my final list:
- - - Characters: 425 pts
Lord of Change 425 pts Lesser gift (sword of swift slaying)
Core: 385 pts
15 Pink Horrors 235 pts Champion, Standard bearer, Musician, Banner of Eternal Flame
10 Pink Horrors 150 pts Standard bearer, Musician
Special: 430 pts
6 Flamers of Tzeentch 240 pts
5 Furies 70 pts Daemon of Tzeentch
3 Screamers of Tzeentch 120 pts
Rare: 260 pts
Soul Grinder 260 pts Daemon of Tzeentch
Total: 1.500 pts - - -
The strategy was to outshoot and outcast the wood elves, forcing them to attack (which is not their strength).
He played with the following list: - 2 units of 10 archers (no modifier arrows) - 2 units of 8 deepwood scouts (poisonous arrows) - 1 unit of 10 dryads - 1 unit of 20 wildwood rangers (double handed weapons) with BSB and war banner - 1 unit of 10 waywatchers - Mage on great eagle
Turn 1 The Wood Elves got the first turn. Their shooting rolls were terrible. 46 arrows (+ Hail of Doom Arrow) resulting only in 1 wound on the LoC, 1 wound on the flamers and leaving 2 furies dead.
Then, the daemons showed that they were in control. The screamers flew over his mage, did 2 wounds and a blue fire spell from the LoC killed the mage on Eagle. The flamers shot 8 waywatchers and the last two models flew off the board. Two important units gone in the first turn! The rest of my units moved forward to be in shooting/casting range.
Turn 2 His wildwood rangers attacked the screamers and destroyed them. He shot at the LoC that took two more wounds. Also the flamers lost one model from shooting this turn.
The small unit of horrors got an infernal gateway spell through on his units of wildwood rangers, killing 8 rangers and reducing the unit to 12. The small horror unit killed itself after bad rolls for irresistible force. The soulgrinder completely destroyed a unit of deepwood scouts with the grapeshot gun (10 hits S5). The flamers shot at the wildwood rangers, killing 4 more and leaving only 8 wildwood rangers, his only rank & file unit.
Turn 3 The LoC took two more wounds from shooting and died, leaving me only with the large horror unit as caster (then 21 man strong). He charged my large horror unit with the 8 remaining wildwood rangers. My horrors took 6 wounds and struck 8 wounds back. (The blue horror rule is not bad against poorly armoured T3 troops) He only had his BSB remaining with 1 wound that held ground.
That was the point when he conceded. Even if the wildwood rangers had won this combat, they would have received a flank charge from Mr. Soulgrinder. He only had 2 small units of archers left, 10 dryads and a couple of scouts. I still had an unharmed soul grinder, 5 flamers and a unit of 15 horrors.
Dice rolls in the game leveled out. His shooting in turn 1 was dreadful, but in turn 3 it performed well. My flamers shot awesome in turn 1, but my magic and miscast rolls were terrible.
Conclusion I chose the right targets to shoot/cats at. First, I targeted his caster and shooting to have the upperhand. Then, his wildwood rangers’ unit numbers were reduced significantly. Otherwise, they probably would have beaten my horrors. It would have been a closer game had he targeted the right units with shooting.
Overall, very fun game (for me at least). He was expecting a completely different type of army and it took him until the end of turn 2 before he had figured out my strategy. Mono Tzeentch is not easy to play, but against this style of wood elves army list, it can definitely work.
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Post by jamesacon on Nov 7, 2022 21:49:15 GMT
Hey mate, Great work on the win! I am a big fan of people using armies that are considered quite challenging! Keep up the great work, I look forward to more of your exploits
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Post by grandmasterwang on Nov 11, 2022 9:50:42 GMT
Awesome to read this thread, the list development and the battle report at the end Congratulations on the win! Well done with the mono Tzeentch (my favourite of the Chaos Gods). I definitely think for a future game give the 280 Daemon Prince a go along with the Blue scribes. Nice to read about the Pink horrors doing good work vs the pesky elves.
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Post by jukei on Nov 12, 2022 10:13:34 GMT
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Post by johngg on Dec 7, 2022 11:18:14 GMT
Excelent battle report and congrats on the win Any more games planned?
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Post by knoffles on Dec 30, 2022 12:17:46 GMT
Good report. I love that your opponent took wildwood rangers.
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