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Post by quenelles84 on May 2, 2022 21:23:05 GMT
Imagine a unit of Bret knights of the realm in lance formation with two paladins and a champion in front rank (and several ranks of standard knights behind)
If this unit is engaged in close combat, is it possible for the enemy unit to actually allocate any attacks to the KoR unit? Or can they only allocate to the characters and/or the champion ? (As the champion is effectively a mini-character and as I understand it any overkill on him won’t carry over to the unit)
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on May 2, 2022 21:41:55 GMT
If the first rank of any unit consists only of characters and a champion, wounds will not carry over to the unit. That is, if all the Attacks are made with the same Initiative. If Attacks with a higher Initiative would kill a character/champion, a R&F model will move to the front rank, and then Attacks with a lower Initiative could target that model, in which case excess wounds would carry over to the unit.
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Post by DiscoQing on May 2, 2022 22:37:55 GMT
It's not called a character wall for nothing 😊
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Post by quenelles84 on May 3, 2022 5:24:35 GMT
If the first rank of any unit consists only of characters and a champion, wounds will not carry over to the unit. That is, if all the Attacks are made with the same Initiative. If Attacks with a higher Initiative would kill a character/champion, a R&F model will move to the front rank, and then Attacks with a lower Initiative could target that model, in which case excess wounds would carry over to the unit. Thank you that’s a really good point I hadn’t thought of. |
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on May 3, 2022 7:46:08 GMT
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Post by quenelles84 on May 10, 2022 10:43:42 GMT
Yes! And thanks also for that, while it's less favourable for me (as would be nice to use Paladins to strip the regen and then pummel with the grails, which isn't possible due to both being initiative 5), but I do agree it is the 'best' interpretation of a somewhat ambiguous rules point.
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Post by DiscoQing on May 10, 2022 12:26:41 GMT
Give 1 Pala the Potion of Speed?
Hope those hits count!
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Post by King of the Snotlings on May 11, 2022 6:52:58 GMT
Hey!
The Lance Formation in the rulebook states that attacks must be allocated to models in base to base contact. So if you have 2 characters and a champion in the front rank, the attacks need to go on them.
Page 93 in the main rulebook then clearifies that attacks made onto a champion do not carry over excess wounds to the unit.
So in effect, you could consider the champion (or characters) a "speedbump" to soak up a bunch of attacks.
- Baron de Brabonte
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on May 11, 2022 20:32:06 GMT
As it happens, you do not need the Lance formation for that: it applies to any unit where the front rank consists solely of characters and champions. That said, it is easier for the Lance formation (or Monstrous Infantry/Cavalry units, for that matter), as the front rank is limited to three models.
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Post by quenelles84 on Nov 14, 2022 23:35:29 GMT
Follow-up:
Does the Character wall equally apply to a flank charge?
Example: my Lance is flanked charged by a wolf chariot and some Orcs. I "Make Way" so that my 3 paladins and champion takes-up the majority of the flank. In diagram below I think the Wolf Chariot can choose to allocate to the unit, the champion or the paladin. However the Orc unit can only elect to hit the paladins or the unit champion. They cannot target the actual unit.
Correct?
KKK
KKC WC
KKP OOO
KKP OOO
KKP OOO
K = Knights
C = Champion
P = Paladin
O = Orcs
WC = Wolf Chariot
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Post by grandmasterwang on Nov 15, 2022 1:22:46 GMT
Follow-up: Does the Character wall equally apply to a flank charge? Example: my Lance is flanked charged by a wolf chariot and some Orcs. I "Make Way" so that my 3 paladins and champion takes-up the majority of the flank. In diagram below I think the Wolf Chariot can choose to allocate to the unit, the champion or the paladin. However the Orc unit can only elect to hit the paladins or the unit champion. They cannot target the actual unit. Correct? KKK KKC WC KKP OOO KKP OOO KKP OOO K = Knights C = Champion P = Paladin O = Orcs WC = Wolf Chariot The Champion isn't a character and should stay in the front rank per the normal rules. Champion cannot 'make way' but can accept challenges. So the Lance unit shouldn't look like your picture with the Champion in second rank. |
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Post by quenelles84 on Nov 15, 2022 8:52:28 GMT
Thank you for that clarification - I've actually always believed a champion could make way into combat! (learn something everyday)
However it's a bad diagram for my question, so here is another example:
- Here I assume the Orcs can only attack the champion or the paladins, the Wolf Chariot can elect between the paladin and the unit.
Correct?
KKC OOO
KKP OOO
KKP OOO
KKP WC
KKK
K = Knights
C = Champion
P = Paladin
O = Orcs
WC = Wolf Chariot
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Nov 15, 2022 9:56:33 GMT
That is correct.
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Post by grandmasterwang on Nov 15, 2022 12:31:29 GMT
Thank you for that clarification - I've actually always believed a champion could make way into combat! (learn something everyday) However it's a bad diagram for my question, so here is another example: - Here I assume the Orcs can only attack the champion or the paladins, the Wolf Chariot can elect between the paladin and the unit. Correct? KKC OOO KKP OOO KKP OOO KKP WC KKK K = Knights C = Champion P = Paladin O = Orcs WC = Wolf Chariot It's an interesting one. Fvon is the resident rules guru so I'm curious as to what he has to say about this. ..because I still don't think the battle would line up exactly the say as your diagram because in your example the Orcs(assume 6 wide, to match the 3 knight length) and chariot charged so the Orc player would move them in and with maximising and corner to corner attacks allowed should be able to line the Orcs up to contact with 5 knights. Unfortunately I can't make it appear as nice as you have but hopefully people can understand what I mean. Corner to corner the Orcs can contact 5 knights as well as fit the Chariot in. In pictured example yes the Orcs are blocked but if I was moving the orcs in when charging I wouldn't line them up like that if given the chance/choice. C PO PO PO KC Would be how I'd try to get the side if that makes sense. So some Orcs could attack the unit. |
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Post by DiscoQing on Nov 15, 2022 14:06:53 GMT
This may help... 1, pre combat 2, after moving characters... Please use imagination for any adjustment in unit size/formation.  |
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