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Post by thegoat on May 23, 2022 0:20:26 GMT
Even though Ogre Kingdoms debuted in sixth edition WFB, I still think of them as a new faction. I think Games Workshop made a big mistake by putting Gnoblars in the Ogre Kingdoms book. The consensus at the time was GW thought the army couldn't work without some normal sized rank and file troops. So they added the Gnoblars.
The inclusion of Gnoblars has always felt lazy to me. GW did the same thing with the fourth edition Chaos Dwarf book. They couldn't come up with enough unique Chaos Dwarf units, so they added Hobgoblins to the army. Again the Hobgoblins feel lazy to me. Though at least they have some character and cool units. Gnoblars are just annoying and ugly.
Now, all that said, I agree the Ogre Kingdoms book works better with some normal sized troop choices. But wouldn't have been infinitely cooler if GW had put Halflings in the Ogre Kingdoms book instead?
The Ogre Kingdoms fluff is already all about food and eating everything in sight. That would align perfectly with Halfling fluff. Halflings love cooking and eating.
Obviously it is too late to swap Halflings for Gnoblars. But I'm interested to hear what people think of the idea. Do agree Halflings are cooler than yea another type of goblin? Or do you prefer the stupid big nosed Gnoblars?
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Post by michael on May 23, 2022 2:11:55 GMT
I agree with you. I have about 50 Ogres, all painted. I have not painted one Gnoblar.
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Post by Naitsabes on May 23, 2022 6:06:03 GMT
well, 8th edition gaming wise, you are better off not fielding units of gnoblars. so, no harm done to you if you don't like them.
I am alright with gnoblars and some I find quite neat, for example the lookout gnoblar at the top of standards and some of the little filler gnoblars to liven up the ogre bases. The regular trooper one piece gnoblars have not aged well. Those faces...ugh. I quite liked the metal trapper gnoblars with the big coats.
Don't think halflings and ogres mix so well fluff-wise. Fine dining vs gorging anything cooked/raw/still alive. They would have had to go a different path with ogres back in 6th. Have them be more mercenary and civilized (at least in terms of eating habits) and not with a home base at the far end of the world.
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Post by DiscoQing on May 23, 2022 7:31:16 GMT
When making my ogre army I had 2 paths to choose from... Orc-ogres with night goblin gnoblars, or normal ogres with halflings based on the excerpt below. The orc-ogres won, because I hate painting human skin and greens kins are easier to paint. Also at the time there were not enough halfling models about, haha. ![]()  |
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Post by thegoat on May 23, 2022 12:21:15 GMT
well, 8th edition gaming wise, you are better off not fielding units of gnoblars. so, no harm done to you if you don't like them. I am alright with gnoblars and some I find quite neat, for example the lookout gnoblar at the top of standards and some of the little filler gnoblars to liven up the ogre bases. The regular trooper one piece gnoblars have not aged well. Those faces...ugh. I quite liked the metal trapper gnoblars with the big coats. Don't think halflings and ogres mix so well fluff-wise. Fine dining vs gorging anything cooked/raw/still alive. They would have had to go a different path with ogres back in 6th. Have them be more mercenary and civilized (at least in terms of eating habits) and not with a home base at the far end of the world. Correct, substituting Halflings for Gnoblars would require a superficial rewrite of the Ogre fluff. But I think that would be a net positive to tone down the stupid ogre goofiness. I never liked the stuff about ogres eating their own clubs, etc. The Orcs and Goblins army is already stupid and goofy enough. We don't need a second army competing for the crown of goofiness. End of the day it is only a thought exercise as we got what we got. |
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Post by KevinC on May 23, 2022 14:58:30 GMT
Even though Ogre Kingdoms debuted in sixth edition WFB, I still think of them as a new faction. I think Games Workshop made a big mistake by putting Gnoblars in the Ogre Kingdoms book. The consensus at the time was GW thought the army couldn't work without some normal sized rank and file troops. So they added the Gnoblars. The inclusion of Gnoblars has always felt lazy to me. GW did the same thing with the fourth edition Chaos Dwarf book. They couldn't come up with enough unique Chaos Dwarf units, so they added Hobgoblins to the army. Again the Hobgoblins feel lazy to me. Though at least they have some character and cool units. Gnoblars are just annoying and ugly. Now, all that said, I agree the Ogre Kingdoms book works better with some normal sized troop choices. But wouldn't have been infinitely cooler if GW had put Halflings in the Ogre Kingdoms book instead? The Ogre Kingdoms fluff is already all about food and eating everything in sight. That would align perfectly with Halfling fluff. Halflings love cooking and eating. Obviously it is too late to swap Halflings for Gnoblars. But I'm interested to hear what people think of the idea. Do agree Halflings are cooler than yea another type of goblin? Or do you prefer the stupid big nosed Gnoblars? -------Hey, backoff! I love Gnobalrs!  I love Goblins and all the different breeds, so I thought is was cool to see another breed of Goblin when the original Ogre Kingdoms came out. I may be bias though, I wrote the Gnoblar Hordes army list for WD, and you might remember my WD article about Goblin Ecology detailing new types of Goblins. Anyway, Halflings are a nice fit with Ogres as well, as they both like to eat. WD once showed an Ogre army that used Halfling models instead of Gnoblars. I think a cool idea would be to include unit type for Halflings in the Ogre book as well, but the Ogre player has to choose either Gnoblars or Halflings, not both. For example, if you choose Gnoblars, than you have access to units of Gnoblars and the Scraplauncher. If you choose Halflings you have access to units of Halflings and the Halfling Hot Pot. |
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Post by KevinC on May 23, 2022 15:01:21 GMT
Also, I don't think its lazy design. Goblinoids in fantasy settings have always been evil creatures that a wizard or other creature could employ to carry out their destructive deeds.
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Post by Crazy_Dokta on May 23, 2022 15:38:29 GMT
It's interesting. I consider halflings are more household/civil/"businessmen" and Ogres are tyranny/slavery/barbarian/"mercenary". Of course, they are both love the cooking and eating (and who doesn't love?!  ). But halflings are about "the dinner party", while Ogres are about "grab and devour". So I think Ogres with goblinoids as slaves (gofers) are more appropriate. (Also, it may be assumed, since the Ogres are "neutral force", they've decided "Well, the halflings are good fellow ones, so we'll enslave those little greeny freaks instead"). But. Ogres&Halflings as the themed (converted/count as) army will be amazing. And of course with homebrew armylists with halfling units it will amazing too. What's about this in older armybooks (and in WF roleplay books for example)? Also, are there any evil (chaosy?) halflings? |
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Post by Crazy_Dokta on May 23, 2022 15:44:25 GMT
Also, I don't think its lazy design. Goblinoids in fantasy settings have always been evil creatures that a wizard or other creature could employ to carry out their destructive deeds. That's right. Creeper comes to mind ("The black cauldron", 1985)  |
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Post by knoffles on May 24, 2022 17:02:27 GMT
Also, I don't think its lazy design. Goblinoids in fantasy settings have always been evil creatures that a wizard or other creature could employ to carry out their destructive deeds. That's right. Creeper comes to mind ("The black cauldron", 1985) I loved that series of books as a child. |
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Post by Golgfag on May 25, 2022 10:58:39 GMT
I personally enjoy Gnoblars and their place in the setting but prefer them purely as assistance then them as a fighting force, despite owning multiple Ogre armies in the past I never once built and fielded them as a unit.
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Post by lordofskullpass on May 25, 2022 13:46:11 GMT
I can see and agree in part with both sides of this argument - on one hand Gnoblars do, in effect, turn the Ogres into a more exaggerated version of Orcs and Goblins, where the Orcs have been sized-up and the Goblins have been shrunk, and to have had a full Gnoblar Horde army book as an additional official faction would have certainly introduced a new set of strategies into Fantasy. On the other hand they do add more character to the army and something that's easily beatable to balance out the masses of more formidable Ogres (if anyone bothers to take them, and that's rarely the case now), and Halflings are a whole lot more peaceful than Ogres are so those two races wouldn't have fitted as well together (unless GW did a good deal of retconning so that the Ogres' new home was the Moot, but then that would have prevented the development of the Ice Age theme to the army that their 8th Army Book really focussed on bringing out). KevinC I never knew you wrote for White Dwarf, including the original Gnoblar Hordes army list. Your new version of the list in Warhammer: GROM is starting to look all the more appealing, and I recall you were planning to update it? I look forward to seeing what you add and change! @crazy_Dokta The Black Cauldron has become one of my favourite Disney films in recent years, along with The Hunchback of Notre Dame, for their darker tone compared to most of the other films. I keep on feeling the temptation to insert rules for John Hurt's magnificent Horned King into different wargames (he almost made an appearance in my Hordes of Shadow army list for Fantasy, and I've written rules for his army of Cauldron Born for use in Ravenfeast Fantasy gaming). |
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Post by Lizards_of_Renown on May 28, 2022 10:36:18 GMT
I quite like the Gnoblars to be honest. To me it makes sense that the Ogres would have enslaved some small race to do their bidding as they are not exactly a motivated and responsible race.
I have a whole shedload of gnoblars.
In a pinch, I would use them to first rule the deployment phase if I wanted to ensure I put my key units somewhere good or protected and then to annoy the **** out of someone who was desparately trying to close for close combat.
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). 
