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Post by jamesacon on May 29, 2022 22:50:46 GMT
Hey all,
My question is about "Base Strength".
Ramhorn helm is an item from the beastmen army book. If you make an armour save, the unit that caused the wound suffers a hit at the user's base strength. Say for example a beastlord has Str 5 on his profile.
If I boost the Str, via a spell (wildform) or an item (beast banner) does that now apply to the ramhorn helm? Or is it always the stat on the profile?
Thanks
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on May 30, 2022 8:24:18 GMT
GW itself has not defined anywhere as such, but "basic" means: "forming an essential foundation or starting point; fundamental," and only the characteristic values on the profile can be said to fulfil that requirement.
Note also Beastmen Official Update Version 1.4, p.1:
Page 93 – Treasures of the Herdstones, Ramhorn Helm.
Change the last sentence to read “For every armour save he passes in close combat, the bearer may immediately make a bonus attack at his basic Strength.”
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Post by jamesacon on May 30, 2022 23:10:49 GMT
Thanks for the reply Fvon.
Still seems a bit ambiguous to me, so will just work out how to play it with my opponent.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on May 31, 2022 13:12:49 GMT
Well, at least in 40K, the rulebook makes it clear that the basic value of a characteristic is the value on the profile:
Warhammer 40 K Rulebook, page 7:
MULTIPLE MODIFIERS
If a model has a combination of rules or wargear that both add to and multiply one of its characteristics, first multiply the basic value and then add the extra points. For example, if a model with Strength 4 has both ‘+1 Strength’ and ‘double Strength’, its final Strength will be 9 (4x2=8, 8+1=9).
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on May 31, 2022 15:46:56 GMT
On a side note: the issue of multiple modifiers is not specifically addressed in the BRB either, and would therefore be resolved by the Sequencing rule. This can result in different outcomes, depending on the player whose turn it is.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Jun 1, 2022 16:47:13 GMT
I just remembered that in the 6th & 7th editions, the wearer of Van Horstmann's Speculum could "swap his base Strength, Toughness, Initiative and Attacks values." I am not sure there was ever an official clarification at the time, but this was generally interpreted as meaning the "characteristics on the profile" - as it explicitly says in the 8th edition AB.
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Post by knoffles on Jun 5, 2022 18:26:36 GMT
I’d also tend to play it at the characters starting Str. Boosting it via wild form isn’t really any different from boosting it with the sword of might or ogre blade etc and I’ve never seen anyone count them as included in a base Str.
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Post by DiscoQing on Jun 6, 2022 0:17:14 GMT
I think it is different(?)
Let's say you have a s4 unit with Wildform on them, and separately, a s4 hero with Sword of Might.
If someone casts Dwellers Below on to the unit, would you use S5 for the test?
and for the hero, would you use S4?
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Post by thegoat on Jun 6, 2022 0:41:28 GMT
I think it is different(?) Let's say you have a s4 unit with Wildform on them, and separately, a s4 hero with Sword of Might. If someone casts Dwellers Below on to the unit, would you use S5 for the test? and for the hero, would you use S4? S4 for everybody in that scenario. |
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Post by jamesacon on Jun 6, 2022 7:09:58 GMT
I’d also tend to play it at the characters starting Str. Boosting it via wild form isn’t really any different from boosting it with the sword of might or ogre blade etc and I’ve never seen anyone count them as included in a base Str. I think there is a big difference between a weapon that boosts your strength and an ability/item that boosts your strength. I feel the weapon only comes in to play when used, while the other is always "on". As to how ramhorn works, my friend and I have agreed that it does stack with modified strength from spells/items. But definitely not weapons, as we picture the beastlord headbutts with the current Str value. |
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Jun 6, 2022 9:12:25 GMT
I think it is different(?) Let's say you have a s4 unit with Wildform on them, and separately, a s4 hero with Sword of Might. If someone casts Dwellers Below on to the unit, would you use S5 for the test? and for the hero, would you use S4? S4 for everybody in that scenario. You would use S5 for the unit and S4 for the hero. Dwellers just requires a Strength test, not a test against the "basic Strength." As jamesacon says, the S bonus of a weapon normally only comes into play when the weapon is actually used. [Official Update Version 1.9, p. 6: Q: Does a magic item or spell that gives a bonus to a characteristic, do so bonus for all rules purposes (e.g. the effect of spells, characteristic tests, etc)? (p4) A: Yes, except for magic weapons or where the description of the item or spell specifically says otherwise. Q: Does a weapon that gives a bonus to a characteristic only give that bonus when being used to attack a model?(p4) A: Most weapons, including magic weapons, state when the bonus is given. For example, a model with the Fencer’s Blades will always have Weapon Skill 10 whilst a model with a great weapon will only have +2 Strength when striking an enemy in close combat. When a weapon does not say when the characteristic bonus applies, then it only applies when striking, or being struck, in close combat. |
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