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Post by brigada75 on Jun 26, 2022 19:01:04 GMT
Hi!
Simple question, or at least I hope so:
01 Unit A charges Unit X
02 Unit X reaction: hold
03 Unit B charges also Unit X
04 Unit X reaction: flee
I know that Unit B can try to redirect the charge, but I was wondering if also Unit A can try to redirect the charge.
Thx!
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Jun 26, 2022 21:28:00 GMT
No. A redirect can only happen immediately after a Flee! reaction. The sequence is:
1. Declare a charge
2. Declare an resolve the charge reaction
3. Declare another charge
If the charge reaction to your charge is not Flee!, you cannot redirect.
BRB p. 16: "In this sub-phase, you'll choose one of your units and declare the charge you want it to make. Your opponent will then have the chance to have his unit hold its ground or react to the charge, either by standing and shooting or fleeing.
Once the charge reaction has been resolved, you can nominate another of your units to declare a charge, and so on, until all of your charges have been declared and reacted to — then you get to make your charge rolls and resolve the charges."
DECLARE CHARGE The player picks one of his units and announces which enemy unit it will charge. The enemy must make its charge reaction before another charge can be declared."
BRB p. 18: "If the target unit declares a Flee! reaction, the charging unit now has a choice: it can either attempt to complete the charge against the now-fleeing unit, or try to redirect its charge by making a Leadership test."
The relevant word here being "now."
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Post by rahotep75 on Jun 27, 2022 1:14:52 GMT
According to the FAQ, any of the charging units may attempt to redirect.
“Q: If multiple units have declared a charge against a unit that has
chosen a Flee! Charge response, can they all attempt to redirect their
charge if there is another viable target in range? (p18)
A: Yes. The controlling player chooses in which order to try
and redirect his charging units.”
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Jun 27, 2022 7:58:33 GMT
Except that in this case, the first unit has not declared a charge against a unit that has chosen a Flee! reaction, but that has chosen to hold.
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Post by brigada75 on Jun 27, 2022 11:04:13 GMT
Looks like the FAQ is badly written, or at least that it could have been written way more clearly.
I see room to interpret the rule one way or another.
Someone knows how this is/was sorted out in the tournament scene?
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Jun 27, 2022 11:33:12 GMT
Well, having read the FAQ again, I do agree now with rahotep75 that it implies all units, even those that declared charges when the enemy unit elected to Hold, because otherwise it would have no real purpose. Not exactly unheard of, mind you, and, as you say, it could have been written more clearly. |
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hebi
New Member
Posts: 11
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Post by hebi on Sept 3, 2022 19:35:56 GMT
Recently I saw OnceBitten360 battle report from one of the tournaments (I think US Masters) and both units were able to redirect. I remember it clearly because I used to play different and was shocked they could do it.
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Post by thorpyuk on Sept 15, 2022 11:46:42 GMT
Sorry to tack onto this one, but he's an odd situation that I find hard to believe but here goes!
My opponent parks 3 individual eagles in front of my horde block.
I declare a charge on Eagle A, he flees.
I redirect to Eagle B, he flees. I cannot redirect more than once, and as Eagle C is still in front of me, I'm stuck & my charge fails..
Is that right? (I understand this would be an extremely rare case)
If so, it seems like one of those situations whereby the rules don't quite cover it
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Sept 15, 2022 13:47:08 GMT
That is correct. In fact, it is a variation on the "double flee", which is an established tactic: The tactic works against all units, as long as the two units that will flee are in the right position. You declare a charge against an enemy unit. The enemy unit flees through another enemy unit behind it. Because of that, you are not able to bring the charging unit into contact with its target, and the charge would fail. If you then choose to redirect your charge against the second enemy unit, that enemy unit now flees through the first, which in turn blocks your access to your current target, again resulting in a failed charge. |
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Post by thegoat on Sept 15, 2022 14:15:22 GMT
That is correct. In fact, it is a variation on the "double flee", which is an established tactic: It is 100% rules legal. But keep in mind, one man's "established tactic" is another man's "beardy rules exploit." I doubt I'd play a second game against an opponent using tactics like this. |
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Sept 15, 2022 20:46:20 GMT
Well, as you yourself indicate, the question "Is it legal?" can at least be resolved objectively. The answer to the question "Is it a beardy rules exploit?" is a highly subjective. One man's beard is another man's stubbles, or even shaven skin.
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Post by vulcan on Sept 17, 2022 16:23:01 GMT
Besides, you don't charge eagles. You shoot them.
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Post by oldmandan on Sept 19, 2022 5:34:24 GMT
The solution our group came up with back in about 2006 was that you declare all charges first then players declare their charge reactions. That seemed to minimise problems with charging redirection. We felt with the rules on p. 16 BRB that there were too many arguments. If you can play without problems then stick with the BRB.
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Post by rahotep75 on Sept 19, 2022 15:11:20 GMT
The solution our group came up with back in about 2006 was that you declare all charges first then players declare their charge reactions. That seemed to minimise problems with charging redirection. We felt with the rules on p. 16 BRB that there were too many arguments. If you can play without problems then stick with the BRB. That makes sense in 2006, since that’s how 6E and 7E handle charges. 8E was released in 2010 and made a lot of changes. |
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Post by oldmandan on Sept 19, 2022 16:37:27 GMT
Yeah, I find that that keeps the pace of the game as well. The rules changed so much between editions. But that's what's interesting is each edition did have some good rules. I just remember the arguments about charge redirections being a major sticking point. I struggle to remember 6E was not my favourite edition, particularly as a Skaven player.
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