|
Post by jukei on Jul 13, 2022 10:25:55 GMT
Special 710 pts
Khemrian Warsphinx [210pts]
Sepulchral Stalkers [165pts]: 3x
Necropolis Knights 325 pts 5x standard bearer
I dropped 1 sphynx ( the colossus) and I chose our cobra knights the reason why I felt i need this unit in a list like this is their movement 7 and swifstride I need to put pressure since the beginning and in case I front a static defensive army such as dwarves or a gunline list I am going to move this unit" fast"...charging and supporting it with chariots and/ or sphinx
(15 wounds T4 Armour save 3+)
|
|
|
Post by jukei on Jul 13, 2022 10:32:38 GMT
Heroes 220 points
Liche priest lev 1 lore of nehek 70 points
Tomb prince 150 obsidian lodestone enchanted shield ..........................................................
I added a liche priest lev 1 for some reasons 1) additional channeling dice 2) If I front a defensive static army I am going to swap the spell I get with the signature spell of nehek. It will grant my unit ( or units) to have an additional movement and, in case, put them in a better position My skeletons needs to not be left behind and moreover this additional movement will help Arkhan's spells to get the range they need.. Hierotitan +d3 bonus will help the wizard to cast this spell... Generally it will not be dispelled . In case , instead , I get a good spell like Neru protection (Ward save 5+)...I should keep it.
|
|
|
Post by jukei on Jul 13, 2022 12:50:15 GMT
Now it comes a difficult choice. I decided to give obsidian lodestone to a lord or hero. This grants a WS 4++ vs magic to all my Skeletons units and Arkhan. ( my TK will have a WS 3++)
I am not that scared of death lore or miscast but still I want do enforce my defence and there is nothing better I can do for protecting arkhan imho.
I was thinking to have a second hero (wizard of nehek or a Necrotect) The first choise is sound but once in melee i will easily give away his points because he is pretty easy to kill. Necrotect instead can give hatred to skellie but still has no protection( if I spend 45 points on obsidian lodestone I will have only 5 points left and I cannot give him a magic shield beause of his weapon).
I started to think about Tomb Prince
1) he is a hero with 3 wounds! 2) he has WS 5 , T 5 and he has light armour 3) in case My king dies I can still grant a WS 5 to all the unit 4) I can give him a Armour save 4+ parry save 6+( using the 5 points left and giving him the enchanted shield) 5) I will have 3 additional attacks WS 5 S 4 6) in melee a necrotect or lev 1/2 wizard can be killed very easily ..A tomb prince will not give away his points so easily.
|
|
|
Post by jukei on Jul 13, 2022 14:45:43 GMT
other thoughts - Necrotect can be killed even before we can have his bonus( hatred). - the idea of losing in melee 2 wizard ( lev 1 or 2) is not appealing. They are in a horde so they will be in the first rank. - skeletons in horde formation are essential. - Tomb Prince is more expensive and with saved points I could have given to the first wizard the stone and to the second a dispel scroll But Regarding dispel scroll I must say that having a +5 in dispelling thanks to Arkhan is really great. believe it or not... I didn't suffer that much the missing of a scroll. ...................................................................................................................... I have to test the list but I am confident the army can work very well. If I am wrong I will be the first to say it.:-) so all the TK lovers can learn from my failures. ... I will also say why , what worked , what not... It's easy to say "we need to to raise, buff, support" , but it's less easy to find points, build a proper army list, and ...TEST the list! Theory hammer often brings nowhere guys. Some comments sometimes just seem to me like a meme..." If you don't have a house....then buy it".
|
|
|
Post by grandmasterwang on Jul 16, 2022 6:34:00 GMT
Enjoying reading your Arkhan list and thoughts behind it.
With the mini tournament report what did the Beastmen player field? What engaged the Arkhan squad?
With the Mask king, please elaborate on the effects that had in all the battles (seemingly nothing vs the sneaky elves which makes sense)
I've had a few games with Arkhan in the past years ago and done pretty well. I always wanted to try combining with the Mask king but never did (mostly model related, wanted to eventually make a masked Tomb King but never did). I had planned on him being chariot mounted though. So this list and battles are interesting to me.
I personally found movement to be the biggest weakness as no marching (no Undead legions back then) but would always bring a lvl 1 Nehekhara with a scroll (similar to your list v2 but with a dispell scroll so 95 points). Like you I'd pair Arkhan with Heiro and Casket.
Did Casket/Heiro survive all games?
Did Arkhan death snipe anything big in your 3 games?
Did you use Heiro bound spells at all?
Any stalker related mishaps? What did they kill/engage in the games? Wood elves especially aren't a good matchup but Ogres are great.
In the 3 games, roughly how many skeles in the big unit were left at the end?
A note on your v2 version of the list... The Tomb King with Shield should be cheaper than the GW version. Not sure if you can find a use for the 3 points but it all helps right 😉
I think the version with snakes will work better for reason you mentioned and with the lvl 1 Nehekhara you have more chance of casting the movement spell on Arkhan unit to get it in position.
Curious as to how Horsemen over archers will work out for you.
|
|
|
Post by jukei on Jul 16, 2022 15:12:33 GMT
“Enjoying reading your Arkhan list and thoughts behind it. “
Thanks my friend. I am glad to read this
With the mini tournament report what did the Beastmen player field?
Big gor units BsB beast banner chariots ghorgon minotaur unit with big bull general
What engaged the Arkhan squad?
Mino unit killed my sphynx and charged my “royal guard “( skeleton horde) I was able to hold and the next turn I flank charge with hiero managing to debuff his Leadership I won..he failed the Leadership .. flee and I managed to catch his unit with my Titan and I detroyed it.
With the Mask king, please elaborate on the effects that had in all the battles (seemingly nothing vs the sneaky elves which makes sense)
1 psycological.effect It seems that somehow arkhan + tomb king +mask + a reasonable big unit of skeleton was considered not aprior target and often or avoided or delayed or left as last target.
2 mask costs 60 points and I think it's worth his points. 1. One of the main advantage even against a death star was to avoid the bsb rerol this is what i felt effective. you get this advantage” automatically” and you have to try to cast the death spell -3 to Leadership. The combo is a game changer. ( I realized that If you fail to do it our unit generally can hold and you will have a second chance the turn after.)
Sure opponent will try to dispel at any cost this spell but still after he used some of his dispel dice you can try to cast -1 T -1S spell this can also change the fight … For istance his Strenght 5 unit will drop to S 4 ( we will still have a AS 6+ and parry save 6+ or regen 6+ on our skeletons) iI his unit is S4 it will drop to S3 and we will get our Armour save S 5+ and reg 6++ This is the reason why I gave skeletons light armour and shield!
3 terror generally will require the opponent to test fear ( ok unit immune to psycology will not) But I mean even if his unit has “fear” he will need to test and this is a slight advantage I felt. (Not rerolling the L test can seriously cause his unit to fight with WS1 !)
4 I felt mask works better if you deploy the unit on a flank . In this way mask can target a unit in which there is not The General. In this way it s more effective.Imho (Anyway I deployed my unit generally in the middle of the battlefield.) My royal guard is somehow “proud”. All in all CAN be a game changer.
I've had a few games with Arkhan in the past years ago and done pretty well. I always wanted to try combining with the Mask king but never did (mostly model related, wanted to eventually make a masked Tomb King but never did).
I hope this thread will inspire you . Try it !you will like it .
I had planned on him being chariot mounted though. So this list and battles are interesting to me.
I have read some guys try it on a chariot but I am not sold Pros you can get fast in a position where your Arkhan can be in range for his snipe spells
Cons he is here seriously fragile . His bunker will cost you ton of points ( you need a chariots unit of minimum 5) and still he will lose LOS very easily Footfprint of chariots unit is huge . Manouvrability is not the best you can still put character on chariots but what will be the cost of this unit ?
If you try ...let me know. Now I am curious.and let me know how you would play it
I personally found movement to be the biggest weakness as no marching (no Undead legions back then) but would always bring a lvl 1 Nehekhara with a scroll (similar to your list v2 but with a dispell scroll so 95 points). Like you I'd pair Arkhan with Heiro and Casket.
I tried to search point for the scroll...But I could not. Btw I totally agree with you. I arrived to the same conclusion ( setup)
Did Casket/Heiro survive all games? Casket not.
His glade riders killed it in the end of the game Ogre cannons ( yes he played 2 of them ) main targets were my 2 sphynx and Colossus so casket survived to the first 2 matches
Hierotitan survived always. Opponents knows he is not a great fighter and they know priorities are others
Did Arkhan death snipe anything big in your 3 games?
Yes. Vs Wood elves he killed in the last 2 turns a hero dancer who was trying to delay my royal guard marching towards his glade guards and he killed his general also it was epic! but still I lost!!! Arkhan killed also the 206 beastmen bsb :-)
Did you use Heiro bound spells at all?
Always. the laser eyes. First 2 turns I try to cast this spell on his chaff which may delay or redirect my royal guard or my sphinx Sniper spells are out of range so I may use dice ( 6 or 5 ) for casting the casket bound spell...then I use shem gaze spell of the hierotitan and then ( if I had dice left) one” remain in game” spell from lore of death which forces him to dispel it the turn after. He has an advantage (due to his wizard in dispelling the casket spell) but still I realized it works for draining his dispell dice. In 3 games the casket bound spell was always dispelled. shem gaze never. Other death spell ( at least one per turn was “passing”) with Arkhan I think we really need This is the strategy I used to put pressure
Any stalker related mishaps? What did they kill/engage in the games? Wood elves especially aren't a good matchup but Ogres are great.
I loved them vs OK no misfire ..simply great I got read of a 3 mournfang unit ( AS 2+) and they killed also a chariot cannon Vs beastmen they were more tactical I used them also in melee vs Wood elves didn't do anything at all I felt 165 points x 2 …were just wasted that's why I decide to keep just one unit
In the 3 games, roughly how many skeles in the big unit were left at the end?
VS wood elves ALL !!! I was constantly marching and delayed by chaff...heroes...whatever...
vs Beastmen around 20
vs ogre less then 20
In the new list I raised a bit their numbers from 54 to 58 ...I think this is the right number ( around 60) unit is so slow ..investing more can be a waste of points if they don't see any fight.
Btw I have never lost Arkhan and the king
A note on your v2 version of the list... The Tomb King with Shield should be cheaper than the GW version. Not sure if you can find a use for the 3 points but it all helps right ?
Thanks my friend . true...:-)
I think the version with snakes will work better for reason you mentioned and with the lvl 1 Nehekhara you have more chance of casting the movement spell on Arkhan unit to get it in position. Let's cross fingers.. if you want I let you know
Curious as to how Horsemen over archers will work out for you. We will really see here... I don't know if I will feel a difference with archers
|
|
|
Post by jukei on Jul 16, 2022 16:39:39 GMT
MR3 item costs 45 points Even if a give to a cheap hero ( necrotect) I am going to invest 105 points at least so I still think My Prince is a tough hero and I believe he is worth the additional 45 points-
The real problem here is if MR3 is worth in this list. I didn't need in my 3 matches this kind of protection..... but I feel this is the only way to defend more my General and Arkhan
The alternative could be dropping the mask and give the talisman MR3 to the king pros I will free 150 points
cons Mask + arkhan + Hiero + casket + king +skeletons is the backbone of my army
I feel a bit less effective without the mask even if with 150 points add an additional snake and other skeletons to my unit
|
|
|
Post by 1plussave on Jul 16, 2022 16:53:37 GMT
For 15 points you can get the Scroll of Protection or whatever which gives a 4+ Ward save against one spell, at that point you can have MR 1 or 2 instead for a 1 time 2+ save vs a spell or in games where you don't need to protect the lord you use it to protect something else from say... Doombolt.
|
|
|
Post by jukei on Jul 16, 2022 18:13:34 GMT
For 15 points you can get the Scroll of Protection or whatever which gives a 4+ Ward save against one spell, at that point you can have MR 1 or 2 instead for a 1 time 2+ save vs a spell or in games where you don't need to protect the lord you use it to protect something else from say... Doombolt. Thanks for your post. I am glad to read this kind of ideas and tactics. If I chose this scroll I am going to give it to the "naked "liche lev 1 but I am not going to invest other points on MR1 or MR2 because I don't know to whom I should give the MR1 or MR2 item if I want to keep the mask setup on my TK. ( this setup is the best I could find with his 40 points left ) Anyway this scroll is not going to protect me against a miscast explosion. MR 3 is more effective but sure much more expensive. Anyway you idea is viable (a 1 time save ws 4+ vs a spell can save our Arkhan )
|
|
|
Post by 1plussave on Jul 16, 2022 18:16:44 GMT
Keep in mind a Miscast is not treated as a spell so MR will do Jack shit against it. Only a real ward save will do that.
|
|
|
Post by jukei on Jul 16, 2022 18:26:24 GMT
Keep in mind a Miscast is not treated as a spell so MR will do Jack shit against it. Only a real ward save will do that. My bad.I completely forgot this small(or maybe not that small detail). Thanks mate.
|
|
|
Post by jukei on Jul 16, 2022 18:41:22 GMT
Maybe I can try 1)same setup on the king. 2) I will drop prince with his mr3 item 3) I give the liche the scroll of shielding (as suggested) and with the points left i can play 6 snakes full command and raise skeletons warriors to 67 (+ 3 lord/hero)
Soon I will update the armylist. Others ideas/ suggestions?
|
|
|
Post by 1plussave on Jul 16, 2022 18:50:50 GMT
1 Liche priest with the Shielding Scroll and another with a Dispel Scroll gives you 2 channels and 2 scrolls to drop as you need. Also lets you look into light or death for your magic.
|
|
|
Post by jukei on Jul 18, 2022 16:06:54 GMT
Tomb Kings [2,500pts]
Lords [633pts]
Arkhan the Black [360pts]: AB - Staff of Nagash, AB - The Liber Mortis, AB - The Tomb Blade of Arkhan, Lore of Death, Wizard Level 4
Tomb King [273pts]: Shield [3pts] . Magic Items [100pts]: AB - Golden Death Mask of Kharnut [60pts], BRB - Armour of Fortune [35pts], BRB - Dragonbane Gem [5pts]
Heroes [85pts]
Liche Priest [85pts]: Lore of Nehekhara, Wizard Level 1 BRB - Scroll of Shielding [15pts]
Core [625pts]
Skeleton Chariots [185pts]3x . Standard Bearer [20pts]: BRB - Banner of Eternal Flame [10pts]
Skeleton Horsemen [60pts]
Skeleton Horsemen [60pts]
Skeleton Warriors [320pts]: Champion [10pts], Musician [10pts], Standard Bearer [10pts] . 58x Skeleton Warriors [290pts]Light Armour [58pts]
Special [847pts]
Carrion [72pts]: 3x
Khemrian Warsphinx [210pts]
Necropolis Knights [205pts]: 3x Standard Bearer [10pts]
Necropolis Knights [195pts]: 3x
Sepulchral Stalkers [165pts]: 3x
Rare [310pts]
Casket of Souls [135pts]
Hierotitan [175pts]
|
|
|
Post by jukei on Jul 18, 2022 16:18:56 GMT
Lords slot is locked Core slot is locked ( 625 points on the dot..I can only add.) Rare slot is locked ( casket + Hiero are untouchable)
I can just drop/ add in hero s and special slot
I also like the idea of a second wizard lev 1 dispel scroll Liche priest with this setup costs me 95 points
so this is the alternative list
Tomb Kings - Army Book (2013-4) -V8.8.4.) [2,498pts] ++
Lords [633pts]
Arkhan the Black [360pts]: AB - Staff of Nagash, AB - The Liber Mortis, AB - The Tomb Blade of Arkhan, Lore of Death, Wizard Level 4
Tomb King [273pts]: Shield [3pts] . Magic Items [100pts]: AB - Golden Death Mask of Kharnut [60pts], BRB - Armour of Fortune [35pts], BRB - Dragonbane Gem [5pts]
Heroes [180pts]
Liche Priest [85pts]: Lore of Nehekhara, Wizard Level 1 Scroll of Shielding [15pts]
Liche Priest [95pts]: Lore of Nehekhara, Wizard Level 1 Dispel Scroll [25pts]
Core [625pts]
Skeleton Chariots [185pts] 3x . Standard Bearer [20pts]: BRB - Banner of Eternal Flame [10pts]
Skeleton Horsemen [60pts]
Skeleton Horsemen [60pts]
Skeleton Warriors [320pts]: Champion [10pts], Musician [10pts], Standard Bearer [10pts] . 58x Skeleton Warriors [290pts]: 58x Light Armour [58pts]
Special [750pts]
Khemrian Warsphinx [230pts]: 4x Crew, Fiery Roar [20pts]
Necropolis Knights [355pts]: Champion [10pts], Musician [10pts], , Necroserpent, Standard Bearer [10pts] 5x Necropolis Knights [325pts]
Sepulchral Stalkers [165pts]: 3x
Rare [310pts]
Casket of Souls [135pts]
Hierotitan [175pts]
|
|