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Post by thorpyuk on Jul 20, 2022 17:39:31 GMT
I agree it's the best WFB edition. The only issue I have is cavalry... why oh why don't you always strike first when you charge? My empire knights are now just useless expensive white elephants who get minced by anything with good armour piercing damage before my lances have even landed!
That combined with the stepover rule mean knights are now rubbish in 8th.
Overpowered in 7th yes, but now very poor value
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Post by NIGHTBRINGER on Jul 20, 2022 21:07:21 GMT
I vow never to play any miniatures game except WFB 8E! I see that you are a man of exquisite taste!  |
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Post by vulcan on Jul 21, 2022 1:19:14 GMT
The trick is targeting. Don't throw heavy cav into units that will shred them. Much of the time, I just use them in small units as anti-chaff.
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Post by thorpyuk on Jul 21, 2022 21:30:52 GMT
The trick is targeting. Don't throw heavy cav into units that will shred them. Much of the time, I just use them in small units as anti-chaff. Thing is, cavalry are meant to be your big hitters... What you've described is about all they're good for tbf! Glad Dwarfs are my main army.. |
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Post by thegoat on Jul 22, 2022 0:57:41 GMT
The trick is targeting. Don't throw heavy cav into units that will shred them. Much of the time, I just use them in small units as anti-chaff. Thing is, cavalry are meant to be your big hitters... What you've described is about all they're good for tbf! Glad Dwarfs are my main army.. I disagree. Cavalry should be a solid support unit, not a mainline big hitter. In older editions five heavy knights could charge the front of a twenty-five (or more) man infantry unit and route them in one turn. And of coarse chase them down too. That was pretty dumb. Cavalry should be used strategically to get flank charges when your big hitter block infantry units are holding the line. |
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Post by vulcan on Jul 22, 2022 4:19:27 GMT
The trick is targeting. Don't throw heavy cav into units that will shred them. Much of the time, I just use them in small units as anti-chaff. Thing is, cavalry are meant to be your big hitters... What you've described is about all they're good for tbf! Glad Dwarfs are my main army.. Not for Empire armies, they're not. As I understand it, your heavy hitters are Greatswords, Flagellants, or Halberdiers with support from magic, priests, and buffwagons. Or you're running gunline. Cavalry is there mostly to make sure you don't get outmaneuvered, Now Bretonnia, there the Cav is the heavy hitters. Bret infantry is a bit like Empire halberdiers, without the ability to buff from all schools of magic, without the priests, without the buffwagons, and a lower WS. More tarpit than hammer. Now the problem that keeps coming up for Bretonnia is that some joker keeps issuing their knights rubber lances for those vital charges... |
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Post by vulcan on Jul 22, 2022 4:21:53 GMT
Thing is, cavalry are meant to be your big hitters... What you've described is about all they're good for tbf! Glad Dwarfs are my main army.. I disagree. Cavalry should be a solid support unit, not a mainline big hitter. In older editions five heavy knights could charge the front of a twenty-five (or more) man infantry unit and route them in one turn. And of coarse chase them down too. That was pretty dumb. Cavalry should be used strategically to get flank charges when your big hitter block infantry units are holding the line. And steadfast means they fail at that more often than not. Or they arrive so late in the game they make no difference. |
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Post by thorpyuk on Jul 22, 2022 9:18:55 GMT
They should be solid support units, I agree, in 8th they cannot be big hitters. I just think it's crazy GW took away the 'charging unit always hits first' rule. Not sure how an elf with a sword is meant to hit a Knight on horseback carrying a lance before he can but there you go!
But out of the two (7th where cavalry were unbeatable) and 8th where they're pretty useless, I'd prefer to take 8th! I just think the step-forward rule would have been enough on its own to level the playing field without losing 'charging unit goes first' as well..
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Post by Horace on Jul 22, 2022 9:42:24 GMT
Not sure I'd call core cavalry with a 1+ AS useless...
True you have to pick your matchups but the same is true of every unit in the game.
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Post by thorpyuk on Jul 22, 2022 11:03:26 GMT
Not sure I'd call core cavalry with a 1+ AS useless... True you have to pick your matchups but the same is true of every unit in the game. Perhaps useless is a bit harsh, but for 22 points per man, they're definitely not even close to what they used to be. I think I'm going to suggest using the 'chargers go first' rule with my opponents |
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Post by knoffles on Jul 22, 2022 16:30:24 GMT
Not sure I'd call core cavalry with a 1+ AS useless... True you have to pick your matchups but the same is true of every unit in the game. Perhaps useless is a bit harsh, but for 22 points per man, they're definitely not even close to what they used to be. I think I'm going to suggest using the 'chargers go first' rule with my opponents the other option which I think WAP did was something like +2 or 3 initiative on the charge for Lance equipped knights |
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Buxe
Full Member
Posts: 135
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Post by Buxe on Jul 22, 2022 22:45:10 GMT
the other option which I think WAP did was something like +2 or 3 initiative on the charge for Lance equipped knights I like this approach. |
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Post by 1plussave on Jul 23, 2022 1:18:27 GMT
I always wondered whether Lances should be a S+2 Impact hit and THEN you get your normal, non-lance attacks.
Problems of course being the inability to direct attacks for challenges and so on.
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Post by KevinC on Jul 24, 2022 13:09:45 GMT
These are neat ideas. This could help spears too. Lances +2S & +3I when charging.
Spears (mounted) +1S & +2I on charges.
Spears (infantry) extra rank and +2I (except when they charge)
I was playtesting some rules for Bretonnia where cav have Impacts Hits (1) on the charge and if armed with a lance they could add the strength bonus.
I like the idea of an Initiative bonus a lot.
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Post by johngg on Jul 26, 2022 14:09:31 GMT
Like knoffles, Mathias has covered this [quite well in my mind] in his WAP rules. Go check them out! |
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