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Post by Luigino on Mar 11, 2023 13:16:21 GMT
[The first printing of the WFB 8th edition rulebook came with a paper insert with a rules errada for the victory points section of the rules. Pretty lame that they caught the problem before release. But decided to sell through the bad copies anyway. I bought the 8th edition rulebook as soon as it came put and I do not remember this in the slightest |
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Post by thegoat on Mar 11, 2023 13:49:40 GMT
[The first printing of the WFB 8th edition rulebook came with a paper insert with a rules errada for the victory points section of the rules. Pretty lame that they caught the problem before release. But decided to sell through the bad copies anyway. I bought the 8th edition rulebook as soon as it came put and I do not remember this in the slightest Without the errata draws are much more common. Check it out (right click & open in new tab, for larger version):  note: The macro that changes the abbreviation "w h f b" ==> "WFB" probably shouldn't do that inside of linked image URLs. It took me a minute to figure out why my image wouldn't load. |
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Post by vulcan on Mar 11, 2023 16:34:29 GMT
No premeasuring only gimps honest players. There are WAY too many ways to cheat it, making it a meaningless rule. I'm a perfectly honest player and I only measure after declaring which unit to fire/charge at (i.e. postmeasuring, not premeasuring) - if I'm in range, all well and good, if not, then all my shots miss/I've made a failed charge. Easy, realistic, and a tape measure doesn't lie. Premeasuring is far more like cheating than not doing so in a game set in a genre where generals wouldn't have access to targeting systems that can reliably tell them whether a unit is in range or not. Measuring maximum range to a target and then saying 'no I won't charge/shoot those guys now that I know they're out of range, I'll charge/shoot these instead' is classic gamey behaviour. I've seen people carefully measure where they're placing terrain - or where terrain is when deploying - so they can use it as a way to measure distances in game. I've seen people lean on the table, putting their arm near the units in question, clearly using their arm or hand to measure the distance. Heck, if you've marched a full 8" from your start line and I've marched the full 8" from my start line, I KNOW we're 8" apart now without measuring. Which means the cannon deployed 8" behind your start line is 24" away and now I can 'guess' appropriately. There's measuring for shooting last turn. Plenty of opportunities to 'accidentally' wave an extended tape measure over places it really shouldn't go if you're being honest. A bit of knowledge and experience working with trigonometry goes a long way too. And then there's the people who will argue about 1/16th of an inch, and always ONLY in the direction that benefits them. And that's not even an exhaustive list of ways to cheat 'no premeasuring' that I've heard of. Like I said, there's so many ways to cheat the rule it only gimps the most honest players. |
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Post by vulcan on Mar 11, 2023 16:38:35 GMT
This just smacks of GW trying to keep to impossible deadlines and pushing out a half arsed product. How can there possibly be an FAQ already waiting BEFORE the reulebook is released?! You would have thought they would have learned with HH:Inferno, or Leages of Votaan. The first printing of the WFB 8th edition rulebook came with a paper insert with a rules errada for the victory points section of the rules. Pretty lame that they caught the problem before release. But decided to sell through the bad copies anyway. While I agree it's lame, once the books were printed there really wasn't any choice in the matter. Printing such large, hardcover, full-color books is EXPENSIVE. It's quite possible GW might not have been able to afford buying a corrected print run while just throwing away that first bad print. Granted, they SHOULD have caught such basic errors in editing and proofreading, but we're talking about GW here. |
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Post by NIGHTBRINGER on Mar 11, 2023 17:18:03 GMT
I bought the 8th edition rulebook as soon as it came put and I do not remember this in the slightest Without the errata draws are much more common. Check it out (right click & open in new tab, for larger version): note: The macro that changes the abbreviation "w h f b" ==> "WFB" probably shouldn't do that inside of linked image URLs. It took me a minute to figure out why my image wouldn't load. I got the same Errata update sheet with my 8th edition book upon release. |
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Post by thegoat on Mar 11, 2023 17:29:35 GMT
And then there's the people who will argue about 1/16th of an inch, and always ONLY in the direction that benefits them. If I had a nickel for everytime I was told "Just let them make the charge. It is only a quarter inch." when my opponent misjudged their charge range, I would be a rich man. I purposely halted my unit outside their charge range the turn before. Shouldn't I reap the benefit of that? Pre-measuring put a stop to those fights and the game is better for it. |
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Post by gangland on Mar 11, 2023 17:32:04 GMT
I think that errata sheet came in Island of Blood too. I have all the updated erratas printed in a binder I bring with me for ease of reference. Tried doing that with 40k too but stopped since it seemed every game I played needed multiple FAQ updates and so I stopped caring.
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Post by lordofskullpass on Mar 12, 2023 9:55:32 GMT
I think that errata sheet came in Island of Blood too. I have all the updated erratas printed in a binder I bring with me for ease of reference. Tried doing that with 40k too but stopped since it seemed every game I played needed multiple FAQ updates and so I stopped caring. Can confirm, my 8th rulebook is the mini one from the Island of Blood box and I got the errata sheet for VPs with it. |
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Post by lordofskullpass on Mar 12, 2023 9:58:40 GMT
I'm a perfectly honest player and I only measure after declaring which unit to fire/charge at (i.e. postmeasuring, not premeasuring) - if I'm in range, all well and good, if not, then all my shots miss/I've made a failed charge. Easy, realistic, and a tape measure doesn't lie. Premeasuring is far more like cheating than not doing so in a game set in a genre where generals wouldn't have access to targeting systems that can reliably tell them whether a unit is in range or not. Measuring maximum range to a target and then saying 'no I won't charge/shoot those guys now that I know they're out of range, I'll charge/shoot these instead' is classic gamey behaviour. I've seen people carefully measure where they're placing terrain - or where terrain is when deploying - so they can use it as a way to measure distances in game. I've seen people lean on the table, putting their arm near the units in question, clearly using their arm or hand to measure the distance. Heck, if you've marched a full 8" from your start line and I've marched the full 8" from my start line, I KNOW we're 8" apart now without measuring. Which means the cannon deployed 8" behind your start line is 24" away and now I can 'guess' appropriately. There's measuring for shooting last turn. Plenty of opportunities to 'accidentally' wave an extended tape measure over places it really shouldn't go if you're being honest. A bit of knowledge and experience working with trigonometry goes a long way too. And then there's the people who will argue about 1/16th of an inch, and always ONLY in the direction that benefits them. And that's not even an exhaustive list of ways to cheat 'no premeasuring' that I've heard of. Like I said, there's so many ways to cheat the rule it only gimps the most honest players. If players try to cheat the rule, call them out for it and don't play them again. It's not hard to be discerning about who you play your games with. I'd rather refuse to play gamey people and play the game as it should be played than play everyone with a gamey rule, because the latter is just giving everyone a free pass to cheat in that way. |
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Post by vulcan on Mar 12, 2023 14:09:49 GMT
I've seen people carefully measure where they're placing terrain - or where terrain is when deploying - so they can use it as a way to measure distances in game. I've seen people lean on the table, putting their arm near the units in question, clearly using their arm or hand to measure the distance. Heck, if you've marched a full 8" from your start line and I've marched the full 8" from my start line, I KNOW we're 8" apart now without measuring. Which means the cannon deployed 8" behind your start line is 24" away and now I can 'guess' appropriately. There's measuring for shooting last turn. Plenty of opportunities to 'accidentally' wave an extended tape measure over places it really shouldn't go if you're being honest. A bit of knowledge and experience working with trigonometry goes a long way too. And then there's the people who will argue about 1/16th of an inch, and always ONLY in the direction that benefits them. And that's not even an exhaustive list of ways to cheat 'no premeasuring' that I've heard of. Like I said, there's so many ways to cheat the rule it only gimps the most honest players. If players try to cheat the rule, call them out for it and don't play them again. It's not hard to be discerning about who you play your games with. I'd rather refuse to play gamey people and play the game as it should be played than play everyone with a gamey rule, because the latter is just giving everyone a free pass to cheat in that way. Which is all nice and fine until you realize you've become 'TFG' that no one wants to play, because you've become so paranoid about calling out the dozens of ways to cheat and premeasure, you've started calling it on actions that were genuinely innocent. Seen that happen too. |
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Post by Luigino on Mar 13, 2023 13:30:29 GMT
Picture of rulebook and errata sheet So I went back to my rulebook and the paragraph had already been updated with the correct rules, which is weird because I bought the book as soon as it became available to the general public (my store had gotten them a few weeks before the official release date). A second book I got used much, much later (circa 2018) instead has the wrong wording but still no reminder sheet  |
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Post by thegoat on Mar 13, 2023 14:38:37 GMT
A second book I got used much, much later (circa 2018) instead has the wrong wording but still no reminder sheet A used big red book missing the errata sheet isn't surprising. I assume most people lost it. That is lucky your release day copy is the revised version! |
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Post by johngg on Mar 14, 2023 15:00:49 GMT
The first printing of the WFB 8th edition rulebook came with a paper insert with a rules errada for the victory points section of the rules. Pretty lame that they caught the problem before release. But decided to sell through the bad copies anyway. I still have that little insert  despite the rest of the book falling apart at the back. A single page was bad enough but I guess we'll just have to see how 'bad' this FAQ is... |
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