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Post by thorpyuk on Feb 19, 2023 20:02:24 GMT
Hi all, I've been toying with a slightly different strategy I'm calling 'the immovable tide'. This particular strategy uses absolutely no ranged weapons or war machines and is entirely melee-focussed! I'd like to prefix this with a few disclaimers - I don't consider this as a tournament-ready list, or a hyper-competitive one but much more of a fun, 'friendly trial game' style list. In a nutshell, the strategy combines points-denial with the good ol Dwarf Stoicism to make your army a really tough nut to crack. The sample list below is based on a 2,000 point game but of course, variations can be created easily. The strategy combines 4 blocks of infantry - the two outside 'flank' units need to be immovable objects, so I've gone with Slayers due to 'unbreakable' and a unit of Ironbreakers with oath stone Thane included to maximise their 'Shieldwall of Gromril' rule. The horde of Warriors I placed next to the Slayers with the BSB inside, and the hammerers next to them with the master rune of Groth one eye. This means the entire army is covered by Groth giving everyone stubborn, and the BSB giving everyone re-rolls, meaning leadership rolls should rarely be failed. This ensures the integrity of your force even if one or more units is hit by anything particularly nasty! The plan revolves around tarpitting anything that hits you, while hoping your hammer units (GW Warriors or Hammerers) manage to break through the lines or force a failed leadership roll somewhere. Once you've broken through, you mop-up. Deployment probably works best with one flank jammed against the side of the battlefield. In terms of weaknesses, I'd avoid it against shooting-heavy (as you might be too whittled-down to make an impact by the time you land) or avoidance lists (as they'll be able to dance away from you) Here's an idea of how you might line up. In hindsight the lord is probably better nestled into the hammerers unit. Here's an example list: ++ Standard (Dwarfs - Army Book (2014-2) -V8.8.0.) [1,998pts] +++ Uncategorised +- Army Size: Army (0-2999 points) + Lords +Lord [238pts]: Shield, Shieldbearers . Ancestral Heirlooms and Runes: Rune of Fury (1st rune), Rune of Might (1st rune) (in hammerers) + Heroes +Dragon Slayer [80pts]: Rune of Cleaving (1st rune) Thane [114pts]: Battle Standard Bearer, Dwarf Pistol, Shield . Ancestral Heirlooms and Runes: Rune of Fire (1st rune), Rune of Speed (in GW Warriors) Thane [104pts]: Dwarf Pistol, Oath Stone, Shield . Ancestral Heirlooms and Runes: Rune of Speed (in ironbreakers) + Core +Dwarf Warriors [500pts]: Champion, Musician, Standard Bearer . 47x Dwarf Warrior: 47x Great Weapons + Special +Hammerers [390pts]: 20x Hammerer . Champion: Rune of Speed . Musician . Standard Bearer: Master Rune of Groth One-Eye Ironbreakers [310pts]: 20x Ironbreaker . Champion: Brace of Drakefire Pistols . Musician . Standard Bearer Slayers [262pts]: 19x Slayer . Giant Slayer: Rune of Fire (1st rune) ++ Total: [1,998pts] ++Created with BattleScribe
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Post by knoffles on Feb 19, 2023 21:44:10 GMT
Where to put the lord is challenging choice. I’ve been stung before with GW warriors struggling to take tough things down and wishing that I’d had him in the unit. I tend to find his main purpose in the hammerers is to act as a shield, to prevent some incoming damage, as they are very squishy (you can probably see that I would favour putting him in the warriors). That said, your unit of hammerers is pretty small (I appreciate that it is down to the 2k pt limit) but as the important linchpin due to the banner, having the lord in there will help. The other option is to just give the Ironbreakers the rune of stoicism and rely on the numbers of the GW warriors together with the lord or thanes LD 10 to prevent them running. That way you will save 40 odd points to buy a few extra hammerers.
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Post by thorpyuk on Feb 19, 2023 22:12:39 GMT
Sage advice... having the lord in the hammerers as a buffer sounds like it plays nicely into this tactics wheelhouse. Against Elves, I'd be tempted to drop the hammerers altogether for either Shieldbeards, Ironbreakers or another unit of GW Warriors with perhaps another Thane to increase their hitting power, as the Str 6 is somewhat wasted..
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Post by wundapantz on Feb 20, 2023 3:15:02 GMT
I like a big unit of miners in a list like this to come in from behind and really add pressure as they are essentially GW warriors as well.
Edit: I'd probably swap the dragon slayer for a runesmith
Also rune of cleaving isn't as good as having the slayer's axe always wounding on a 4+ or swapping to a GW against armour
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Post by thorpyuk on Feb 20, 2023 14:58:49 GMT
I like a big unit of miners in a list like this to come in from behind and really add pressure as they are essentially GW warriors as well. Edit: I'd probably swap the dragon slayer for a runesmith Also rune of cleaving isn't as good as having the slayer's axe always wounding on a 4+ or swapping to a GW against armour Hi wundapants, you get the 4+ to wound irrespective of the weapon they carry... it's attached to the model rather than the axe. You would lose the option of picking the great weapon though... i think you're right to swap him for a runesmith. In terms of the miners, although i like the idea, the idea with this tactic is that everythings covered by Groth and the BSB meaning at worse re-rollable leadership tests needing 9 or under, and if you step outside of that 'bubble' you'd lose the benefit it affords To be fair, when I created the list above I think i had etherial units in mind, so gave a lot of cheap runic weapons just to get the extra magical attacks
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Post by grandmasterwang on Feb 21, 2023 6:37:23 GMT
...absolutely no range weapons you say..
...and yet I see pistols in your list...
...grumble, grumble....
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Post by thorpyuk on Feb 21, 2023 11:15:13 GMT
...absolutely no range weapons you say.. ...and yet I see pistols in your list... ...grumble, grumble.... Hahaha good point... I should shave my beard in ingomony! I'll post a tweak on the list later with High Elves in mind
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Post by thorpyuk on Feb 21, 2023 11:28:13 GMT
Here's how I'd run this tactic vs any Elves... MRo Grungi included on the BSB giving Longbeards, Warriors and Hammerers the 5+ ward vs shooting which you really need vs elves. Ironbreakers on the flank shouldn't need it as much with their 3+ save. ++ Standard (Dwarfs - Army Book (2014-2) -V8.8.0.) [2,000pts] +++ Uncategorised +- Army Size: Army (0-2999 points) + Lords +Lord [248pts]: Shield, Shieldbearers . Ancestral Heirlooms and Runes: Master Rune of Snorri Spangelhelm, Rune of Cleaving (1st rune), Rune of Fury (1st rune) - in hammerers + Heroes +Runesmith [74pts]: Great Weapon, Shield . Ancestral Heirlooms and Runes: Rune of Stone - in Longbeards Thane [159pts]: Great Weapon, Shield . Battle Standard Bearer: Master Rune of Grugni - in Warriors Thane [104pts]: Great Weapon, Oath Stone, Shield . Ancestral Heirlooms and Runes: Rune of Stone - in Ironbreakers + Core +Dwarf Warriors [370pts]: Champion, Musician, Standard Bearer . 34x Dwarf Warrior: 34x Great Weapons Longbeards [316pts]: Champion, Musician, Standard Bearer . 22x Longbeard: 22x Shields + Special +Hammerers [405pts]. Champion . 20x Hammerer: 20x Shields . Musician . Standard Bearer: Master Rune of Grotch One-Eye Ironbreakers [324pts]: 21x Ironbreaker . Champion: Brace of Drakefire Pistols . Musician . Standard Bearer ++ Total: [2,000pts] ++Created with BattleScribe
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Feb 21, 2023 15:11:47 GMT
On a side note: can a tide be immovable? Isn't a core characteristic that it moves?
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Post by thorpyuk on Feb 21, 2023 16:09:11 GMT
On a side note: can a tide be immovable? Isn't a core characteristic that it moves? I'm renaming it to 'The Immovable Wall' ! Do you play Dwarfs Fvon?
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Post by knoffles on Feb 21, 2023 19:05:51 GMT
If you did take miners, by the wording, you can choose to put them in ambush (about the only ambushing unit that you don’t have to automatically ambush)
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Feb 21, 2023 23:23:39 GMT
On a side note: can a tide be immovable? Isn't a core characteristic that it moves? I'm renaming it to 'The Immovable Wall' ! Do you play Dwarfs Fvon? Empire only, I am afraid. That said, I am full of admiration for the Dwarfs, our oldest and closest allies, whose perceived lack of height is more than matched by their depth of feeling - not just of grudges, but also of loyalty and friendship.
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Post by grandmasterwang on Feb 24, 2023 13:46:17 GMT
Here's how I'd run this tactic vs any Elves... MRo Grungi included on the BSB giving Longbeards, Warriors and Hammerers the 5+ ward vs shooting which you really need vs elves. Ironbreakers on the flank shouldn't need it as much with their 3+ save. ++ Standard (Dwarfs - Army Book (2014-2) -V8.8.0.) [2,000pts] +++ Uncategorised +- Army Size: Army (0-2999 points) + Lords +Lord [248pts]: Shield, Shieldbearers . Ancestral Heirlooms and Runes: Master Rune of Snorri Spangelhelm, Rune of Cleaving (1st rune), Rune of Fury (1st rune) - in hammerers + Heroes +Runesmith [74pts]: Great Weapon, Shield . Ancestral Heirlooms and Runes: Rune of Stone - in Longbeards Thane [159pts]: Great Weapon, Shield . Battle Standard Bearer: Master Rune of Grugni - in Warriors Thane [104pts]: Great Weapon, Oath Stone, Shield . Ancestral Heirlooms and Runes: Rune of Stone - in Ironbreakers + Core +Dwarf Warriors [370pts]: Champion, Musician, Standard Bearer . 34x Dwarf Warrior: 34x Great Weapons Longbeards [316pts]: Champion, Musician, Standard Bearer . 22x Longbeard: 22x Shields + Special +Hammerers [405pts]. Champion . 20x Hammerer: 20x Shields . Musician . Standard Bearer: Master Rune of Grotch One-Eye Ironbreakers [324pts]: 21x Ironbreaker . Champion: Brace of Drakefire Pistols . Musician . Standard Bearer ++ Total: [2,000pts] ++Created with BattleScribeLove the list in principle. I'm a big fan of melee dwarfs. I like lists which do something a bit different to the standard. If I was to make one tweak to it (vs elves) it would be to drop the Ironbreaker champion pistol (no shooting tsk tsk you said) a couple of GW Warriors (stubborn afterall and they shouldn't be missed too much as well as plenty of wiggle room with 500pts core) and add a rune of spellbreaking to your runesmith. Against Elves that could be the difference maker in stopping a game changing pit of shades or mindrazor cast.
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Post by thorpyuk on Feb 24, 2023 17:35:52 GMT
Here's how I'd run this tactic vs any Elves... MRo Grungi included on the BSB giving Longbeards, Warriors and Hammerers the 5+ ward vs shooting which you really need vs elves. Ironbreakers on the flank shouldn't need it as much with their 3+ save. ++ Standard (Dwarfs - Army Book (2014-2) -V8.8.0.) [2,000pts] +++ Uncategorised +- Army Size: Army (0-2999 points) + Lords +Lord [248pts]: Shield, Shieldbearers . Ancestral Heirlooms and Runes: Master Rune of Snorri Spangelhelm, Rune of Cleaving (1st rune), Rune of Fury (1st rune) - in hammerers + Heroes +Runesmith [74pts]: Great Weapon, Shield . Ancestral Heirlooms and Runes: Rune of Stone - in Longbeards Thane [159pts]: Great Weapon, Shield . Battle Standard Bearer: Master Rune of Grugni - in Warriors Thane [104pts]: Great Weapon, Oath Stone, Shield . Ancestral Heirlooms and Runes: Rune of Stone - in Ironbreakers + Core +Dwarf Warriors [370pts]: Champion, Musician, Standard Bearer . 34x Dwarf Warrior: 34x Great Weapons Longbeards [316pts]: Champion, Musician, Standard Bearer . 22x Longbeard: 22x Shields + Special +Hammerers [405pts]. Champion . 20x Hammerer: 20x Shields . Musician . Standard Bearer: Master Rune of Grotch One-Eye Ironbreakers [324pts]: 21x Ironbreaker . Champion: Brace of Drakefire Pistols . Musician . Standard Bearer ++ Total: [2,000pts] ++Created with BattleScribeLove the list in principle. I'm a big fan of melee dwarfs. I like lists which do something a bit different to the standard. If I was to make one tweak to it (vs elves) it would be to drop the Ironbreaker champion pistol (no shooting tsk tsk you said) a couple of GW Warriors (stubborn afterall and they shouldn't be missed too much as well as plenty of wiggle room with 500pts core) and add a rune of spellbreaking to your runesmith. Against Elves that could be the difference maker in stopping a game changing pit of shades or mindrazor cast. Definitely that would work nicely. That's another thing with this tactic- lots of variation!
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Post by johngg on Mar 3, 2023 11:22:27 GMT
On a side note: can a tide be immovable? Isn't a core characteristic that it moves? I believe the 'Tide' IS the motion. You're confusing the action with the thing, the water, which is movable. From Apocrypha, King Cnut and the sycophantic episode with 'The tide'
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