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Post by sonofkurnos on May 10, 2023 13:00:28 GMT
Can I get some pointers/feedback on this 2.5k empire list please before I go on a spending spree?! I get that mounted lists aren't top tier, but it's something I want to try and empire seem pretty good at it. The characters seem a little bare bones and underprotected with no wards, but the more I spend on items the less I have for stuff (and steam tanks...🤣) GM, wizard (second rank) and a priest in the IC knights BSB and a priest in the normal knights ++ Standard (Empire - Army Book (2013-4) -V8.8.2.) [2,495pts] +++ Uncategorised +- Army Size: Army (0-2999 points) + Lords +Battle Wizard Lord [259pts]: Lore of Beasts, Wizard Level 3 . Magic Items: BRB - Book of Ashur . Warhorse: Barding Grand Master [259pts]: Shield . Magic Items: AB - Runefang, BRB - The Other Trickster's Shard + Heroes +Captain of the Empire [144pts]: Battle Standard Bearer, Full Plate Armour, Lance . Magic Items: BRB - Dawnstone, BRB - Enchanted Shield . Warhorse: Barding Warrior Priest [85pts]: Heavy Armour, Shield . Warhorse: Barding Warrior Priest [85pts]: Heavy Armour, Shield . Warhorse: Barding + Core +Knightly Orders [316pts]: Champion, 13x Knightly Orders, Lance and Shield, Musician, Standard Bearer Knightly Orders Inner Circle [345pts]: 12x Knightly Orders Inner Circle, Lance and Shield . Champion . Musician . Standard Bearer: BRB - Standard of Discipline + Special +Demigryph Knights [262pts]: Champion, 4x Inner Circle Knight, Lance, Musician, Standard Bearer Great Cannon [120pts]Great Cannon [120pts]+ Rare +Steam Tank [250pts]Steam Tank [250pts]++ Total: [2,495pts] ++Created with BattleScribeCurrent considerations.... Heavens instead of beasts for the lore on the wizard, I feel beasts is better based on my army theme? Drop a demigryph to put the wizard on a peg, and up the IC knights by one man to bring a full rank? Then heavens might be better with it's zappy spells? Drop the mage for some light cav and banners? Thoughts and opinions welcome, but stay within the obvious theme |
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Post by sonofkurnos on May 10, 2023 13:15:40 GMT
This would be the revised list, with a peg mage ++ Standard (Empire - Army Book (2013-4) -V8.8.2.) [2,493pts] +++ Uncategorised +- Army Size: Army (0-2999 points) + Lords +Battle Wizard Lord [315pts]: Lore of Beasts, Wizard Level 4 . Imperial Pegasus . Magic Items: BRB - Book of Ashur Grand Master [259pts]: Shield . Magic Items: AB - Runefang, BRB - The Other Trickster's Shard + Heroes +Captain of the Empire [119pts]: Battle Standard Bearer, Full Plate Armour, Lance . Magic Items: BRB - Enchanted Shield . Warhorse: Barding Warrior Priest [85pts]: Heavy Armour, Shield . Warhorse: Barding Warrior Priest [85pts]: Heavy Armour, Shield . Warhorse: Barding + Core +Knightly Orders [316pts]: Champion, 13x Knightly Orders, Lance and Shield, Musician, Standard Bearer Knightly Orders Inner Circle [370pts]: 13x Knightly Orders Inner Circle, Lance and Shield . Champion . Musician . Standard Bearer: BRB - Standard of Discipline + Special +Demigryph Knights [204pts]: Champion, 3x Inner Circle Knight, Lance, Musician, Standard Bearer Great Cannon [120pts]Great Cannon [120pts]+ Rare +Steam Tank [250pts]Steam Tank [250pts]++ Total: [2,493pts] ++Created with BattleScribe |
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Tubis
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Posts: 203
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Post by Tubis on May 10, 2023 14:56:39 GMT
The empire can do a really convincing cav list and I think your basic blocks and heroes are solid. Some issues that I can see: - too few drops. Prepare to be outdeployed by armies with a lot of chaff. - you don't have any chaff of your own and nothing to really take their sacrificial units out, apart from one terrible beasts magic missile. - banners on demigryphs are a liability. When they break - and they sometimes do - you just loose the model. They don't need static CR, they are there to dish out the pain! - you might have too many cannons. You already have 2 on the steamtanks. I really don't think you need 4 cannon shots per turn, when in general a lot of your army offers high strength attacks. Bearing that in mind I would: -drop both cannons, invest in two small units of outriders/pistoliers for redirecting/chaff clearing duties -alternatively a cheap hero on a pegasus can be very useful for hunting down enemy war machines. Those warplightning cannons, doomdivers and organ guns really have to go or your knights are toast! - drop the banner on the demigryphs - maybe invest in the crown of command for one of the priests? I find stubborn to be pretty important for empire armies, as they do lose combats. - pegasus riding wizard screams death magic to me. Purple sun and doom and darkness may help you shif stubborn enemy hordes. That's all I can think of right now. Go and roll some dice and see how it works  |
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Post by sonofkurnos on May 10, 2023 15:11:26 GMT
The empire can do a really convincing cav list and I think your basic blocks and heroes are solid. Some issues that I can see: - too few drops. Prepare to be outdeployed by armies with a lot of chaff. - you don't have any chaff of your own and nothing to really take their sacrificial units out, apart from one terrible beasts magic missile. - banners on demigryphs are a liability. When they break - and they sometimes do - you just loose the model. They don't need static CR, they are there to dish out the pain! - you might have too many cannons. You already have 2 on the steamtanks. I really don't think you need 4 cannon shots per turn, when in general a lot of your army offers high strength attacks. Bearing that in mind I would: -drop both cannons, invest in two small units of outriders/pistoliers for redirecting/chaff clearing duties -alternatively a cheap hero on a pegasus can be very useful for hunting down enemy war machines. Those warplightning cannons, doomdivers and organ guns really have to go or your knights are toast! - drop the banner on the demigryphs - maybe invest in the crown of command for one of the priests? I find stubborn to be pretty important for empire armies, as they do lose combats. - pegasus riding wizard screams death magic to me. Purple sun and doom and darkness may help you shif stubborn enemy hordes. That's all I can think of right now. Go and roll some dice and see how it works Thanks for the pointers, I especially like your ideas as it pushes more towards fully mounted! How does this look as a revision? ++ Standard (Empire - Army Book (2013-4) -V8.8.2.) [2,481pts] +++ Uncategorised +- Army Size: Army (0-2999 points) + Lords +Battle Wizard Lord [315pts]: Lore of Death, Wizard Level 4 . Imperial Pegasus . Magic Items: BRB - Book of Ashur Grand Master [259pts]: Shield . Magic Items: AB - Runefang, BRB - The Other Trickster's Shard + Heroes +Captain of the Empire [119pts]: Battle Standard Bearer, Full Plate Armour, Lance . Magic Items: BRB - Enchanted Shield . Warhorse: Barding Warrior Priest [85pts]: Heavy Armour, Shield . Warhorse: Barding Warrior Priest [85pts]: Heavy Armour, Magic Items, Shield . Warhorse: Barding + Core +Knightly Orders [316pts]: Champion, 13x Knightly Orders, Lance and Shield, Musician, Standard Bearer Knightly Orders Inner Circle [370pts]: 13x Knightly Orders Inner Circle, Lance and Shield . Champion . Musician . Standard Bearer: BRB - Standard of Discipline + Special +Demigryph Knights [252pts]: Champion, 4x Inner Circle Knight, Lance, Musician Pistoliers [90pts]: 5x Pistoliers Pistoliers [90pts]: 5x Pistoliers + Rare +Steam Tank [250pts]Steam Tank [250pts]++ Total: [2,481pts] ++Created with BattleScribe |
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Tubis
Full Member
Posts: 203
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Post by Tubis on May 10, 2023 15:32:38 GMT
Hey sonofkurnos I think that looks better! I would personally go for one unit of outriders and one of pistoliers, but two units of pistoliers can work as well. There's some fine tuning to be done with the characters but I'd need get army builder running. I will give it some thought |
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Post by jamesacon on May 12, 2023 9:56:25 GMT
Hi there! I have an all mounted empire army! And it is so much fun to play. Your list ideas are very similar to mine and I shall share my list and experiences. ++ Standard (Empire - Army Book (2013-4) -V8.8.2.) [2,493pts] +++ Uncategorised +- Army Size: Army (0-2999 points) + Lords +Grand Master [259pts]: Shield . Magic Items: AB - Runefang, BRB - The Other Trickster's Shard This guy is my damage dealer, he goes with the reiksguard knights Which provide stubborn to him. He's a lot of fun! Grand Master [254pts]: Shield . Magic Items: AB - The White Cloak of Ulric, BRB - Biting Blade, BRB - Crown of Command This is my general. His goal is to live!! Not so much dishing out the pain. Goes with the IC knights. As pointed out already, you NEED stubborn! You will practicality never out rank an opponent and this is vital! + Heroes +Battle Wizard [137pts]: Lore of Beasts, Wizard Level 2 . Magic Items: BRB - Dispel Scroll . Warhorse I have found beasts work the best, and I base my survival on wildform! Captain of the Empire [159pts]: Battle Standard Bearer, Full Plate Armour, Shield . Magic Items: BRB - Talisman of Preservation, BRB - Warrior Bane . Warhorse: Barding Again this guy is there to stay alive, the magic weapon is in case ethereal show up. Captain of the Empire [161pts]: Full Plate Armour . Imperial Pegasus . Magic Items: BRB - Dawnstone, BRB - Enchanted Shield, BRB - Sword of Might Now this guy is a major thorn in for my opponents. Hardly breaks because of hold the line, hunts war machines and chaff to well! Had never let me down. Warrior Priest [85pts]: Heavy Armour, Shield . Warhorse: Barding One priest goes in the IC knights the other in the great weapons knights. Warrior Priest [83pts]: Heavy Armour . Warhorse: Barding + Core +Knightly Orders [250pts]: Champion, Great Weapon, 10x Knightly Orders, Musician, Standard Bearer I have found this unit to be great at fighting Str 3 units. So your IC knights can take on other things. Knightly Orders [120pts]: 5x Knightly Orders, Lance and Shield, Musician Another drop/ chaff remover Knightly Orders Inner Circle [320pts]: 11x Knightly Orders Inner Circle, Lance and Shield . Champion . Musician . Standard Bearer: BRB - Standard of Discipline + Special +Pistoliers [100pts]: Musician, 5x Pistoliers Pistoliers [100pts]: Musician, 5x Pistoliers Reiksguard Knights [335pts]: 10x Reiksguard Knights . Champion . Musician . Standard Bearer: AB - Steel Standard + Rare +Celestial Hurricanum [130pts]Now this is my MVP and sleeper unit! The +1 to hit is what gets work done for me. And it's surprisingly not hard to keep it within 6" of my units. My GM with runefang loves it. ++ Total: [2,493pts] ++Random thoughts and experiences. -unit placement is vital for this army. -the characters do all the damage, the knights are basically wounds. -my opponents have found playing against me quite enjoyable with no artillery. - I have win 4/5 games with this list! - the horses sometimes do more wounds than the knights haha Hopefully I have helped a little bit. In the end, go with what you think is cool and fun to play.  |
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Post by sonofkurnos on May 12, 2023 10:12:26 GMT
Hi there! I have an all mounted empire army! And it is so much fun to play. Your list ideas are very similar to mine and I shall share my list and experiences. ++ Standard (Empire - Army Book (2013-4) -V8.8.2.) [2,493pts] +++ Uncategorised +- Army Size: Army (0-2999 points) + Lords +Grand Master [259pts]: Shield . Magic Items: AB - Runefang, BRB - The Other Trickster's Shard This guy is my damage dealer, he goes with the reiksguard knights Which provide stubborn to him. He's a lot of fun! Grand Master [254pts]: Shield . Magic Items: AB - The White Cloak of Ulric, BRB - Biting Blade, BRB - Crown of Command This is my general. His goal is to live!! Not so much dishing out the pain. Goes with the IC knights. As pointed out already, you NEED stubborn! You will practicality never out rank an opponent and this is vital! + Heroes +Battle Wizard [137pts]: Lore of Beasts, Wizard Level 2 . Magic Items: BRB - Dispel Scroll . Warhorse I have found beasts work the best, and I base my survival on wildform! Captain of the Empire [159pts]: Battle Standard Bearer, Full Plate Armour, Shield . Magic Items: BRB - Talisman of Preservation, BRB - Warrior Bane . Warhorse: Barding Again this guy is there to stay alive, the magic weapon is in case ethereal show up. Captain of the Empire [161pts]: Full Plate Armour . Imperial Pegasus . Magic Items: BRB - Dawnstone, BRB - Enchanted Shield, BRB - Sword of Might Now this guy is a major thorn in for my opponents. Hardly breaks because of hold the line, hunts war machines and chaff to well! Had never let me down. Warrior Priest [85pts]: Heavy Armour, Shield . Warhorse: Barding One priest goes in the IC knights the other in the great weapons knights. Warrior Priest [83pts]: Heavy Armour . Warhorse: Barding + Core +Knightly Orders [250pts]: Champion, Great Weapon, 10x Knightly Orders, Musician, Standard Bearer I have found this unit to be great at fighting Str 3 units. So your IC knights can take on other things. Knightly Orders [120pts]: 5x Knightly Orders, Lance and Shield, Musician Another drop/ chaff remover Knightly Orders Inner Circle [320pts]: 11x Knightly Orders Inner Circle, Lance and Shield . Champion . Musician . Standard Bearer: BRB - Standard of Discipline + Special +Pistoliers [100pts]: Musician, 5x Pistoliers Pistoliers [100pts]: Musician, 5x Pistoliers Reiksguard Knights [335pts]: 10x Reiksguard Knights . Champion . Musician . Standard Bearer: AB - Steel Standard + Rare +Celestial Hurricanum [130pts]Now this is my MVP and sleeper unit! The +1 to hit is what gets work done for me. And it's surprisingly not hard to keep it within 6" of my units. My GM with runefang loves it. ++ Total: [2,493pts] ++Random thoughts and experiences. -unit placement is vital for this army. -the characters do all the damage, the knights are basically wounds. -my opponents have found playing against me quite enjoyable with no artillery. - I have win 4/5 games with this list! - the horses sometimes do more wounds than the knights haha Hopefully I have helped a little bit. In the end, go with what you think is cool and fun to play. Very interesting, thanks for taking the time to write the list up with your pointers. Very very interesting. How do you find not running a lv4? 2 grandmasters is ballsy! 🤣 What armies/list archetypes does you list have issues with? |
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Post by thorpyuk on May 12, 2023 17:00:17 GMT
This would be the revised list, with a peg mage ++ Standard (Empire - Army Book (2013-4) -V8.8.2.) [2,493pts] +++ Uncategorised +- Army Size: Army (0-2999 points) + Lords +Battle Wizard Lord [315pts]: Lore of Beasts, Wizard Level 4 . Imperial Pegasus . Magic Items: BRB - Book of Ashur Grand Master [259pts]: Shield . Magic Items: AB - Runefang, BRB - The Other Trickster's Shard + Heroes +Captain of the Empire [119pts]: Battle Standard Bearer, Full Plate Armour, Lance . Magic Items: BRB - Enchanted Shield . Warhorse: Barding Warrior Priest [85pts]: Heavy Armour, Shield . Warhorse: Barding Warrior Priest [85pts]: Heavy Armour, Shield . Warhorse: Barding + Core +Knightly Orders [316pts]: Champion, 13x Knightly Orders, Lance and Shield, Musician, Standard Bearer Knightly Orders Inner Circle [370pts]: 13x Knightly Orders Inner Circle, Lance and Shield . Champion . Musician . Standard Bearer: BRB - Standard of Discipline + Special +Demigryph Knights [204pts]: Champion, 3x Inner Circle Knight, Lance, Musician, Standard Bearer Great Cannon [120pts]Great Cannon [120pts]+ Rare +Steam Tank [250pts]Steam Tank [250pts]++ Total: [2,493pts] ++Created with BattleScribeYou don't need an enchanted shield on the BSB... a standard one will get you 1+ & save a few points but otherwise looks great! 👌 |
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Post by jamesacon on May 13, 2023 23:27:14 GMT
I am glad you found my list interesting. I am not a big magic user myself, It's too random to rely on. So I just take a wizard for dispell scroll and wildform. Because he's cheap, I don't care about throwing 6 dice into it. Too many times I have played with level 4's and they blow up or don't generate enough power dice to make them worth it. As for magic defense, I save the scroll for something horrendous and just pray to dice gods for my dispel attempts haha. Also I am usually throwing dice at the bound spells for the priests. So most of my power dice goes to those. As for things I would struggle against: - big infantry blocks - lore of metal - killing blow units So far my opponents have been: -khorne WoC (played twice) both games were very close! Runefang GM killed his juggernaut BSB after 3 rounds! Both games my captagus was MVP, holding up whole units of khorne warriors to protect my flank. It sucks WoC champions have to challenge but I used it to my advantage. - lizardmen (played twice) first game he had a lot of skink skirmishes with blow pipes. They really shredded my fast cav and made my unit of 5 knights run from stand and shoot off the board with wizard because I rolled three 1's !! The game was close with me finally slaying his slaan in combat. Lore of life regen was neutered by priests flaming attacks spell. I won that game. Second game I lost because I couldn't kill the slaan in time. Lore of light had me hitting most of his stuff on 6's. So the game was more about who can finally kill something haha. He also had no skirmishes that game. - lizardmen (different opponent) no slaan just old blood on carnosaur and monster mash. GW knights managed a charge into the stegadon and killed it and my IC knights charged his carnosaur. I just took out the carnosaur with lances easily. Poor carno  Gor Rok died to runefang which stopped a lot of pain heading into my unit. Hope that helps with some insight. |
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Post by rahotep75 on May 16, 2023 1:10:19 GMT
Captain of the Empire [161pts]: Full Plate Armour . Imperial Pegasus . Magic Items: BRB - Dawnstone, BRB - Enchanted Shield, BRB - Sword of Might Now this guy is a major thorn in for my opponents. Hardly breaks because of hold the line, hunts war machines and chaff to well! Had never let me down. Hold the Line only applies when the character is in a unit. The FAQ specifically clarifies it, as well. |
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Post by jamesacon on May 17, 2023 2:49:33 GMT
Captain of the Empire [161pts]: Full Plate Armour . Imperial Pegasus . Magic Items: BRB - Dawnstone, BRB - Enchanted Shield, BRB - Sword of Might Now this guy is a major thorn in for my opponents. Hardly breaks because of hold the line, hunts war machines and chaff to well! Had never let me down. Hold the Line only applies when the character is in a unit. The FAQ specifically clarifies it, as well. Oh man I can't believe I missed that! Thanks heaps for pointing that out, luckily it has only been used once in all my games! |
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Post by sonofkurnos on May 17, 2023 3:43:10 GMT
Had a couple of revisions here, dropped down to one STank, replaced with a buff wagon and a smaller cheap unit of knights. Bit more encouraged by this revision - the +1 to hit seems like it'll exponentially increase my knights output alongside hatred and reroll wounds from the priests. The smaller unit although only 5 man strong is still +1 as unit ... Or would I be better adding this on to the back rank of one of my larger units? The extra drop/unit seems better? ++ Standard (Empire - Army Book (2013-4) -V8.8.2.) [2,498pts] +++ Uncategorised +- Army Size: Army (0-2999 points) + Lords +Battle Wizard Lord [315pts]: Lore of Death, Wizard Level 4 . Imperial Pegasus . Magic Items: BRB - Book of Ashur Grand Master [259pts]: Shield . Magic Items: AB - Runefang, BRB - The Other Trickster's Shard + Heroes +Captain of the Empire [136pts]: Battle Standard Bearer, Full Plate Armour, Lance, Shield . Magic Items: BRB - Sword of Might . Warhorse: Barding Warrior Priest [85pts]: Heavy Armour, Shield . Warhorse: Barding Warrior Priest [85pts]: Heavy Armour, Shield . Warhorse: Barding + Core +Knightly Orders [316pts]: Champion, 13x Knightly Orders, Lance and Shield, Musician, Standard Bearer Knightly Orders [120pts]: 5x Knightly Orders, Lance and Shield, Musician Knightly Orders Inner Circle [370pts]: 13x Knightly Orders Inner Circle, Lance and Shield . Champion . Musician . Standard Bearer: BRB - Standard of Discipline + Special +Demigryph Knights [252pts]: Champion, 4x Inner Circle Knight, Lance, Musician Pistoliers [90pts]: 5x Pistoliers Pistoliers [90pts]: 5x Pistoliers + Rare +Celestial Hurricanum [130pts]Steam Tank [250pts]++ Total: [2,498pts] ++Created with BattleScribe |
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Post by johngg on May 17, 2023 10:02:31 GMT
<following, intently...>
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Post by jamesacon on May 17, 2023 22:57:35 GMT
Had a couple of revisions here, dropped down to one STank, replaced with a buff wagon and a smaller cheap unit of knights. Bit more encouraged by this revision - the +1 to hit seems like it'll exponentially increase my knights output alongside hatred and reroll wounds from the priests. The smaller unit although only 5 man strong is still +1 as unit ... Or would I be better adding this on to the back rank of one of my larger units? The extra drop/unit seems better? ++ Standard (Empire - Army Book (2013-4) -V8.8.2.) [2,498pts] +++ Uncategorised +- Army Size: Army (0-2999 points) + Lords +Battle Wizard Lord [315pts]: Lore of Death, Wizard Level 4 . Imperial Pegasus . Magic Items: BRB - Book of Ashur Grand Master [259pts]: Shield . Magic Items: AB - Runefang, BRB - The Other Trickster's Shard + Heroes +Captain of the Empire [136pts]: Battle Standard Bearer, Full Plate Armour, Lance, Shield . Magic Items: BRB - Sword of Might . Warhorse: Barding Warrior Priest [85pts]: Heavy Armour, Shield . Warhorse: Barding Warrior Priest [85pts]: Heavy Armour, Shield . Warhorse: Barding + Core +Knightly Orders [316pts]: Champion, 13x Knightly Orders, Lance and Shield, Musician, Standard Bearer Knightly Orders [120pts]: 5x Knightly Orders, Lance and Shield, Musician Knightly Orders Inner Circle [370pts]: 13x Knightly Orders Inner Circle, Lance and Shield . Champion . Musician . Standard Bearer: BRB - Standard of Discipline + Special +Demigryph Knights [252pts]: Champion, 4x Inner Circle Knight, Lance, Musician Pistoliers [90pts]: 5x Pistoliers Pistoliers [90pts]: 5x Pistoliers + Rare +Celestial Hurricanum [130pts]Steam Tank [250pts]++ Total: [2,498pts] ++I think this list is a lot better! Some random opinions and thoughts: - need to find some points for musicians on the pistoliers. It's what makes fast cav shine! - you have payed for a lance on the captain and taken sword of might. Not sure if intentionally. - the wizard seems out of place and is asking to be sniped with no real protection. - you may struggle without crown of command in your army. - Maybe put the wizard on a horse and take crown of command on him. He will be in the second rank assuming you are going 5 wide in your IC knights unit. That way he's relatively safe and you are keeping stubborn. Would probably change lore also, beasts level 4 would be very fun if you can get savage beast of horrors off on your GM! Either way, your list has a good backbone to build off and swap things around if you choose to. Try it out and see how you go! After all, the best way to learn is from playing! |
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Post by sonofkurnos on May 18, 2023 3:24:15 GMT
I think this list is a lot better! Some random opinions and thoughts: - need to find some points for musicians on the pistoliers. It's what makes fast cav shine! - you have payed for a lance on the captain and taken sword of might. Not sure if intentionally. - the wizard seems out of place and is asking to be sniped with no real protection. - you may struggle without crown of command in your army. - Maybe put the wizard on a horse and take crown of command on him. He will be in the second rank assuming you are going 5 wide in your IC knights unit. That way he's relatively safe and you are keeping stubborn. Would probably change lore also, beasts level 4 would be very fun if you can get savage beast of horrors off on your GM! Either way, your list has a good backbone to build off and swap things around if you choose to. Try it out and see how you go! After all, the best way to learn is from playing! Interesting thoughts - I want the wizard to stay on the peg, if this was the case would you rather see him with a 4 plus ward instead of the book? The book + all the channelling and my free dice plus the death lore attribute seems to great way to be really efficient with my power dice... But I get what you are saying for armies that can reach out and touch him The lance on the captain was in error you are correct No musicians was also in error, I'm used to using fast cav so this was a silly oversight I don't get the crown of command comments - why is stubborn so important on this unit. I don't want to be losing combat and with saves and my strikes I surely won't be losing by many if I do? |
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