|
|
Post by colonelburton on Dec 24, 2023 12:49:19 GMT
So the plan is on the coming weekend, should we all have recovered from our flus, colds, covid and in some cases, Christmas hangovers, we intend to do a 2v2 against Vampire Cunts and Ogres with my Dwarven allies and me. Battle Line is the name of the game.
INB4 "friendship": No holds barred. Nothing matters in this match except utter and total annihilation of the enemy. Indeed, I want my Vampire Counterpart so frustrated at the end he takes his entire army and incinerates it.
Lords:
Battle Wizard Lord: Level 4, Lore of Death, with Earthing Rod on Warhorse (AS 6+)
Role: Send those abhorent abberations back to where they belong, head first. Will ride with Block of IC Knight in back
Grand Master with Runefang, Charmed Shield, Seed of Rebirth (AS 1+, 1st hit discount chance, Reg 6+)
Role: Attach to Demigryph Knights and act as an elite fighting force against Ogre charges and corporeal, as well as Terrorgheist if necessary
Heroes:
Battle Wizard: Level 2, Lore of Beasts, with ye Olde Scrolle of Feedebackery
Role: Attach to halberdiers, buff Halberdiers and if possible, local character models (Savage Beasts can really be a BEAST). Also, play that Ace up the sleeve when the opportunity arises (5-6 dice rolled from general at lower HP)
Captain of the Empire (BSB) Banner of Eternal Flame, Shield and Full Plate Armor (AS 3+)
Role: Give entire Halberdier unit flaming attacks against Trollguts and corporeal
Warrior Priest with Heavy Armor, VH Speculum, Enchanted Shield, Warrior Bane (AS 3+)
Role: Protect or boost Halberdiers, act as emergency challenger (particularly against Ghoul King)
Master Engineer
Role: Boost Helblaster
Witch Hunter with Pistol, Crown of Command, Tormentor Sword
Role: Add stubborness, act as secondary challenger against accused ghoul king, reduce Terror, additional fighter against corporeal
Core:
10x Crossbowmen
50x Halberdiers (full command)
7x Knightly Order Inner Circle (full command)
Special:
4x Demigrpyh Knights with Musician
Role: Protect flanks of Halberdiers and Luminark
Great Cannon
Role: Weaken and destroy enemy artillery and dragon
Rare:
Helblaster
Role: Shoot away at anything that may turn out to be an unexpected pain in the butt
Luminark of Hysh
Role: Give saving throw to halberdiers (6+) if possible, blast Terrorgheist and General
Steam Tank
Role: Blast down Terrorgheist and enemy arty, forward guard tackle
Strategy:
While the dwarves focus predominantly on Ogres, my focus will be to assassinate the Vampire General using the Lore of Death, Feedback Scroll, Luminark, and if possible Steam Tank. The reason I plonked Wiz at the back with Knightly's is they give him a proper movement (7-14) and can flee nicely when charged.
I have never used the Witch Hunter before, seems he should be a fit in this matchup. Maybe there's something I'm missing here, in that case, thanks for any feedback. This is also the first time I'm using the IC Knights as a tank for wizard. Is it a bad idea to put the Grand Master (= my general) in a group of Demigryphs (with a total of 12 wounds) that sticks 12" close to the Halberdiers?
|
|
|
|
Post by saniles on Dec 24, 2023 19:06:11 GMT
I think you are going to struggle with the amount of bodies the VC can bring as you have chosen to put a lot of points into your characters rather than having a lot of fighting units. Any good VC player will have several necromancers in addition to the vampire himself with several opportunities for Invocation to bring back what you manage to kill.
It depends on what he brings of course, but going along with mass bodies, watch out for corpse carts and mortis engines.
|
|
|
|
Post by colonelburton on Dec 24, 2023 19:19:16 GMT
I think you are going to struggle with the amount of bodies the VC can bring as you have chosen to put a lot of points into your characters rather than having a lot of fighting units. Any good VC player will have several necromancers in addition to the vampire himself with several opportunities for Invocation to bring back what you manage to kill. It depends on what he brings of course, but going along with mass bodies, watch out for corpse carts and mortis engines. Don't think he has those. And my concept is focused on getting his army to crumble round for round, the dwarves and my main fighting blocks are intended to handle "bodies" and ogres. My experience is, once the VC General is killed, the VC army pretty much takes care of itself. Don't think this is a winnable strategy. |
|
|
|
Post by saniles on Dec 24, 2023 19:22:44 GMT
It won’t work if he has another wizard with Vampires.For VC, if the general gets killed there will be some crumbling, however, if another wizard is there in the army with lore of vampires, it doesn’t continue to crumble
|
|
|
|
Post by colonelburton on Dec 24, 2023 19:31:46 GMT
It won’t work if he has another wizard with Vampires.For VC, if the general gets killed there will be some crumbling, however, if another wizard is there in the army with lore of vampires, it doesn’t continue to crumble So I suppose we will have to continue assassinating. And I certainly won't succeed in doing so with Demigryph Knights. it feels to me like this two-layered strategy of reducing VC power while fighting on the field is better than simply fighting, no? |
|
|
|
Post by saniles on Dec 24, 2023 19:36:51 GMT
The VC can be a hard nut to crack for sure. Have you considered Light Magic instead? The damage and buffs are pretty dang awesome, damage is even better vs undead. Killing the general of any army is always a good idea when you can manage it. My concern would be… once you’ve done it, then what? Are you still stuck in combat where you can’t get to the other wizards? If so, who is going to stomp on the wizard?
General idea is, they are all unbreakable. If you can’t dump on them heavily, it can be really hard not getting into a protracted battle and then get swarmed. Just be careful with this list. You don’t have a lot of wiggle room if something gets killed.
|
|
|
|
Post by colonelburton on Dec 24, 2023 20:38:54 GMT
The VC can be a hard nut to crack for sure. Have you considered Light Magic instead? The damage and buffs are pretty dang awesome, damage is even better vs undead. Killing the general of any army is always a good idea when you can manage it. My concern would be… once you’ve done it, then what? Are you still stuck in combat where you can’t get to the other wizards? If so, who is going to stomp on the wizard? General idea is, they are all unbreakable. If you can’t dump on them heavily, it can be really hard not getting into a protracted battle and then get swarmed. Just be careful with this list. You don’t have a lot of wiggle room if something gets killed. Hmm.. come to think of it, given that the signature spell of LoD is already a decent assassination attempt in itself when successful and should be sufficient against the Master Nec, I could consider re-arranging lores to give the level 2 LoD and the level 4 LoL. Caress of Laniph or Fate of Bjuna is pretty dependent on what spells I roll but my strategy pretty much depended on those two to take out the LD10... And Birona's Timewarp would be epic to have a level 4 wizard get. |
|
|
|
Post by copperpotmd on Dec 24, 2023 22:18:37 GMT
So the plan is on the coming weekend, should we all have recovered from our flus, colds, covid and in some cases, Christmas hangovers, we intend to do a 2v2 against Vampire Cunts and Ogres with my Dwarven allies and me. Battle Line is the name of the game. INB4 "friendship": No holds barred. Nothing matters in this match except utter and total annihilation of the enemy. Indeed, I want my Vampire Counterpart so frustrated at the end he takes his entire army and incinerates it. Lords:
Battle Wizard Lord: Level 4, Lore of Death, with Earthing Rod on Warhorse (AS 6+) Role: Send those abhorent abberations back to where they belong, head first. Will ride with Block of IC Knight in back Grand Master with Runefang, Charmed Shield, Seed of Rebirth (AS 1+, 1st hit discount chance, Reg 6+) Role: Attach to Demigryph Knights and act as an elite fighting force against Ogre charges and corporeal, as well as Terrorgheist if necessary Heroes:Battle Wizard: Level 2, Lore of Beasts, with ye Olde Scrolle of Feedebackery Role: Attach to halberdiers, buff Halberdiers and if possible, local character models (Savage Beasts can really be a BEAST). Also, play that Ace up the sleeve when the opportunity arises (5-6 dice rolled from general at lower HP) Captain of the Empire (BSB) Banner of Eternal Flame, Shield and Full Plate Armor (AS 3+) Role: Give entire Halberdier unit flaming attacks against Trollguts and corporeal Warrior Priest with Heavy Armor, VH Speculum, Enchanted Shield, Warrior Bane (AS 3+) Role: Protect or boost Halberdiers, act as emergency challenger (particularly against Ghoul King) Master EngineerRole: Boost Helblaster Witch Hunter with Pistol, Crown of Command, Tormentor Sword Role: Add stubborness, act as secondary challenger against accused ghoul king, reduce Terror, additional fighter against corporeal Core:10x Crossbowmen
50x Halberdiers (full command) 7x Knightly Order Inner Circle (full command) Special:4x Demigrpyh Knights with Musician Role: Protect flanks of Halberdiers and Luminark Great Cannon Role: Weaken and destroy enemy artillery and dragon Rare:HelblasterRole: Shoot away at anything that may turn out to be an unexpected pain in the butt Luminark of HyshRole: Give saving throw to halberdiers (6+) if possible, blast Terrorgheist and General Steam TankRole: Blast down Terrorgheist and enemy arty, forward guard tackle Strategy:While the dwarves focus predominantly on Ogres, my focus will be to assassinate the Vampire General using the Lore of Death, Feedback Scroll, Luminark, and if possible Steam Tank. The reason I plonked Wiz at the back with Knightly's is they give him a proper movement (7-14) and can flee nicely when charged. I have never used the Witch Hunter before, seems he should be a fit in this matchup. Maybe there's something I'm missing here, in that case, thanks for any feedback. This is also the first time I'm using the IC Knights as a tank for wizard. Is it a bad idea to put the Grand Master (= my general) in a group of Demigryphs (with a total of 12 wounds) that sticks 12" close to the Halberdiers? I have played against VC once with my Empire...but it was a slay fest! Do you have Greatswords? Minimal points in Core and using them instead in special/rare is always a good idea, and 4+ armor, S5 hits are nasty, especially when buffed with a WP. I would suggest dumping the crown on your WH and giving him the Ruby Ring. Your infantry block *shouldnt* need stubborn, and his Killing Blow works for fireball. Be careful with putting banners in your Demis. Our demis are extremely capable, but if they get overwhelmed and break, the model with your banner dies automatically. Finally, Death could be really cool. I like it, thematically...maybe dump Beasts, take Death on your LvL 2, and Light on your Lvl 4? With all these battles, start taking notes and posting! I LOVE reading battle reports in here. Edit after seeing your questions: the wizard in the Knights is interesting, that unit may not have enough wounds for my tastes. But if you are able to avoid combat then it may work! And why not put your Grand Master in with the Halberds? |
|
|
|
Post by colonelburton on Dec 24, 2023 22:45:47 GMT
I have played against VC once with my Empire...but it was a slay fest! Do you have Greatswords? Minimal points in Core and using them instead in special/rare is always a good idea, and 4+ armor, S5 hits are nasty, especially when buffed with a WP. Thanks, and yes, they are an option, though I would have to prox the rear lines with halberds. I would suggest dumping the crown on your WH and giving him the Ruby Ring. Your infantry block *shouldnt* need stubborn, and his Killing Blow works for fireball. That is a great idea. Noted. Do you think I should consider to "accuse" the enemy General instead of the Ghoul King? Be careful with putting banners in your Demis. Our demis are extremely capable, but if they get overwhelmed and break, the model with your banner dies automatically. Ok so no full command on Demis? In my other list (Wood Elves) I put Steel Standard there so that makes sense I wager, but you're saying a default Standard bearer for 10 points is more or less counterproductive? Finally, Death could be really cool. I like it, thematically...maybe dump Beasts, take Death on your LvL 2, and Light on your Lvl 4? Yes, I am considering that. But also vice versa (LoD 4 // LoL 2) With all these battles, start taking notes and posting! I LOVE reading battle reports in here. With all this feedback I've gotten, I will be glad to. In fact, I promise to write an epic tale of battle, provided we win. Edit after seeing your questions: the wizard in the Knights is interesting, that unit may not have enough wounds for my tastes. But if you are able to avoid combat then it may work! My biggest worry is that I will never make it into the 12" range for Bjuna. Spirit Leech is doomed to fail at LD10 - LD7/8. Laniph has a 50/50 wound chance after checks. Another worry is that I get charged, flee successfully, don't recover and drop off the map. And why not put your Grand Master in with the Halberds? Didn't consider that, ever. What does that look like, then? A block of 10x5 halberds and a Horseman glued on one of the front corners? |
|
|
|
Post by copperpotmd on Dec 24, 2023 22:54:46 GMT
I have played against VC once with my Empire...but it was a slay fest! Do you have Greatswords? Minimal points in Core and using them instead in special/rare is always a good idea, and 4+ armor, S5 hits are nasty, especially when buffed with a WP. Thanks, and yes, they are an option, though I would have to prox the rear lines with halberds. I would suggest dumping the crown on your WH and giving him the Ruby Ring. Your infantry block *shouldnt* need stubborn, and his Killing Blow works for fireball. That is a great idea. Noted. Do you think I should consider to "accuse" the enemy General instead of the Ghoul King? Be careful with putting banners in your Demis. Our demis are extremely capable, but if they get overwhelmed and break, the model with your banner dies automatically. Ok so no full command on Demis? In my other list (Wood Elves) I put Steel Standard there so that makes sense I wager, but you're saying a default Standard bearer for 10 points is more or less counterproductive? Finally, Death could be really cool. I like it, thematically...maybe dump Beasts, take Death on your LvL 2, and Light on your Lvl 4? Yes, I am considering that. But also vice versa (LoD 4 // LoL 2) With all these battles, start taking notes and posting! I LOVE reading battle reports in here. With all this feedback I've gotten, I will be glad to. In fact, I promise to write an epic tale of battle, provided we win. Edit after seeing your questions: the wizard in the Knights is interesting, that unit may not have enough wounds for my tastes. But if you are able to avoid combat then it may work! My biggest worry is that I will never make it into the 12" range for Bjuna. Spirit Leech is doomed to fail at LD10 - LD7/8. Laniph has a 50/50 wound chance after checks. Another worry is that I get charged, flee successfully, don't recover and drop off the map. And why not put your Grand Master in with the Halberds? Didn't consider that, ever. What does that look like, then? A block of 10x5 halberds and a Horseman glued on one of the front corners? Right on, all of that tracks. The standard on the demi is a risk, is all. +1 combat res and a magic effect is nice...but if you break, that is 3 wounds gone in a snap. And yes, the GM would be stuck on a corner, outside of formation. But, he will have all of the same benefits as if you had him with Demis (which is none, since troop type and bases don't match) but you have more wounds that the unit can absorb. One last note, administrative. Battlescribe charges you extra points for IC knights in core...but you get one FREE IC Knight unit first. So you are cheating yourself 21 pts with that unit of 7. |
|
|
|
Post by colonelburton on Dec 24, 2023 23:00:11 GMT
Do you have Greatswords? Minimal points in Core and using them instead in special/rare is always a good idea, and 4+ armor, S5 hits are nasty, especially when buffed with a WP. Sorry, need to amend my reply. I don't get what you mean "minimal points in Core and using them instead in special/rare" My core is at bare minimum, I think I even hit the 625 points spot on. Greatswords are Special. So I would have to retire my demigryphs I suppose I feel like I want to keep my grandmaster so that I have something decent against ogres. I could also sacrifice the Helblaster and Engineer (185 points). I am playing with Dwarves on my side, after all. I could ask my partner if he intends to bring a few of his organs etc. |
|
|
|
Post by copperpotmd on Dec 24, 2023 23:04:37 GMT
Do you have Greatswords? Minimal points in Core and using them instead in special/rare is always a good idea, and 4+ armor, S5 hits are nasty, especially when buffed with a WP. Sorry, need to amend my reply. I don't get what you mean "minimal points in Core and using them instead in special/rare" My core is at bare minimum, I think I even hit the 625 points spot on. Greatswords are Special. So I would have to retire my demigryphs I suppose I feel like I want to keep my grandmaster so that I have something decent against ogres. I could also sacrifice the Helblaster and Engineer (185 points). I am playing with Dwarves on my side, after all. I could ask my partner if he intends to bring a few of his organs etc. Oh it sounds like you did exactly what I was talking about. I didn't look at your points, but was talking about hitting the required 25% on the nose and going to your better units. |
|
|
|
Post by colonelburton on Dec 24, 2023 23:08:04 GMT
One last note, administrative. Battlescribe charges you extra points for IC knights in core...but you get one FREE IC Knight unit first. So you are cheating yourself 21 pts with that unit of 7. I believe I am either misunderstanding you completely, or you are wrong about this and BattleScribe mechanic correct, or we have missed something for years. Knights of the Inner Circle: One Knightly Orders unit in your army (see their Army List entry on page 91) can be upgrade to Inner Circle Knights, which have an improved profile, as shown above. Knightly Orders (22 points per model) ...One Knightly unit in the army may be upgraded to Inner Circle Knights (a Precpetor is upgraded to an Inner Circle Perceptor).... 3 points per model BattleScribe, and we too, understand this to mean you can have like 10 MSU of Knights of 5 each... but only one can be Inner Circle. And that one costs 25 per model, not 22. |
|
|
|
Post by colonelburton on Dec 24, 2023 23:13:38 GMT
]Oh it sounds like you did exactly what I was talking about. I didn't look at your points, but was talking about hitting the required 25% on the nose and going to your better units. But now you have me intrigued. Do I really need a Helblaster? Or Demigryphs (especially given that I am considering repositioning the GM) After all, I could put two rows of Greatswords into the front two rows of my Halberds for 220 points. That's the Helblaster, Engineer and one Demigryph worth. Or I keep the Helblaster and Engineer and retire all Demigryphs. |
|
|
|
Post by copperpotmd on Dec 24, 2023 23:14:16 GMT
One last note, administrative. Battlescribe charges you extra points for IC knights in core...but you get one FREE IC Knight unit first. So you are cheating yourself 21 pts with that unit of 7. I believe I am either misunderstanding you completely, or you are wrong about this and BattleScribe mechanic correct, or we have missed something for years. Knights of the Inner Circle: One Knightly Orders unit in your army (see their Army List entry on page 91) can be upgrade to Inner Circle Knights, which have an improved profile, as shown above. Knightly Orders (22 points per model) ...One Knightly unit in the army may be upgraded to Inner Circle Knights (a Precpetor is upgraded to an Inner Circle Perceptor).... 3 points per model BattleScribe, and we too, understand this to mean you can have like 10 MSU of Knights of 5 each... but only one can be Inner Circle. And that one costs 25 per model, not 22. Thank you, I was mistaken! Someone recently referenced only the first one to me and I never confirmed. Sure enough, 3 additional points! |
|
